How to + Cost of diving Rebreathers

[Midthere]

I am wondering the process of becoming a Rebreather diver from scratch and the costs of it.
A little background. I am a freediver so for me if I put on any gear beside freediving gear I want to go deeper then 120 feet and stay down longer.
So basically I want to know how to go from not being certified at all to becoming a technical rebreather diver. How long it takes, cost etc.

 

[caveseeker7]

It's quite a way to go.

Usually Open Water and Advanced (OC) training, Nitrox and Advanced Nitrox (also OC).
At least 50 dives and you can start on a rebreather, though Resue Diver training is a very good idea. Basic CCR training still leaves you with recreational limit, for deeper stuff you'll need Trimix CCR training. That requires 100 hrs experience on the unit (CCRs have unit ratings).

Some places allow you to combine OW/Nitrox, and you can usually do Adv Nitrox/CCR together, but that obviously increases workload quite a bit. Also, different agencies have slightly different curriculum.

From what I understand some agencies have done Open Water training on RB in the past, I don't know if that's still available.

Prices are impossible to gauge as they vary by location as well as by instructor.
If you combine classes or not. Basic CCR training can be anywhere between $1,000 and $1,500. Same with gear. CCRs are somewhere between $ 5,000 and $15,000 depending on the model you want or need.

 

[teksimple]

I am wondering the process of becoming a Rebreather diver from scratch...

If you want to safely go much deeper than 120 feet with a rebreather, you would need to get trimix rebreather certified.

“From scratch”, does this mean you do not yet have open water scuba certification?

There are a few ways to move from scratch to Closed Circuit "technical" rebreather diver. Assuming you get certified the most common way via PADI as an open water and enriched air diver, you would need to still get advanced nitrox certification from another organization like IANTD or gain equivalent experience to do the gas changes required in technical rebreather. PADI also offers a rather extensive tech deep diver course which consists of a minimum of 12 dives and does a lot of deco and gas-change skill building. The latter would be overkill if you wanted to go to rebreather as soon as possible but not if you plan to dive a closed circuit rebreather in a technical capacity. IANTD's Advanced EANx Diver course combined with their Technical Diver course would be roughly equivalent to Padi's Tech Deep Diver course. IANTD Technical diver course requires a minimum of 100 logged dives, 1/3 of which need to have been deeper than 90 feet.

Though there are several ways to get there including PADI, TDI and other organization’s open circuit training, for simplicity let’s consider the IANTD way. An advantage to this compared to PADI is that an IANTD instructor may be more familiar with technical diving and rebreathers than the typical PADI instructor, and can guide you in a more direct manner. This is certainly not always the case, though.


Open Water Scuba certification: a few (part-time) weeks, $300-500.
Enriched Air Diver: a dive weekend plus academic time, $150-$300
IANTD Deep Diver, a dive weekend plus academic time , $150-300
Advanced Enriched Air Diver: one or more weekends plus academics, minimum 120 minutes underwater $300-500
IANTD CCR diver: 7-10 solid days, $1000 - $1500
IANTD Normoxic Trimix CCR Diver: one long dive weekend plus academics, $800 - $1000
IANTD Trimix CCR Diver: one long dive weekend plus academics, $800 - $1000

By the time you get to your Normoxic Trimix CCR Course, you need to have a minimum of 200 logged dives. Unless you are independently wealthy and can dedicate your time to diving, or you dive for a living, it will invariably take more than a year (as it should!) to become a full technical rebreather diver. Add that to the cost of a closed circuit rebreather and related equipment ($4,000 - $25,000), and you certainly have come a LONG ways in time, money and mindset from free diving!

Hope this helps.

 

[teksimple]

It's quite a way to go...

Of course, I should have known, you were all over that question before I had a chance. I figured it was still a little too early in California (before six am!!) for Caveseeker, but I was wrong.

 

[Midthere]

Thanks for the answers. They have given me a good idea of the route it would take.
Two more questions how much does it cost about per dive on a rebreather and you talked about having 200 logged dives do all of those need to be on a rebreather?

 

[caveseeker7]

Of course, I should have known, you were all over that question before I had a chance. I figured it was still a little too early in California (before six am!!) for Caveseeker, but I was wrong.

The only thing wrong is that I didn't get a good night's sleep. :bluthinki

Two more questions how much does it cost about per dive on a rebreather and you talked about having 200 logged dives do all of those need to be on a rebreather?

Cost per dive varies a bit by rebreather as scrubbers and tanks come in different sizes.
(O2 and He are usually charged by the cubic foot in the US)

If you use the search function (cost in RB forum) there are plenty of threads dealing with the cost/dive and cost/hour.

As I mentioned above, requirements and curriculum differ by agency.
What they all (should) have in common is that the skills are more important than the number of dives. There are divers out there with 200 plus hours that have survived on luck and luck alone. When you get into technical diving c-cards are earned, not bought. You will need many of the hours required to get those skills not just right, but become second nature.

 

[Hoosier]

I also had the same question about the cost of RB and tech diving.....

What I figured out is if you are thinking about the money matter, you are in the wrong place....

The training and gear is just the initial cost... The real cost is after then.

 

[caveseeker7]

That really depends on the dives you do.

Custom mixes are quite expensive, around here O2 sells for 50¢/cuft and He for 80¢/cuft.
Fill twin 104s and and some deco stages and a single dive can cost in excess of $100 just for the gas.

On a CCR you fill the loop supply, O2 ($10 for 3 ltr that lasts 5+ hours) and the same size dil tank (they're between 2 and 5 ltrs, 3 ltr/19 cuft most common) with your bottom mix instead of 208 cu ft!

You will need to fill bailout tanks too, but unless your RB fails that's a one time expense.

Absorbant depending on manufacturer and scrubber anywhere between $14 and $30/fill.

In my case (6 lbs Sodasorb) about $16. That's good for at least 5 hours (rec profiles).
Dil (air) free from LDS, O2 $10. $26 for consumables, so just over $5/hr.
Add battery (standard 9V, good for around 40 hrs), O2 lube and disinfectant for cleaning. O2 cell replacement annually (about $200).
Plus normal reg and tank services.

For cmparisson, an OC nitrox costs me $10/fill and lasts about 30 to 40 mins ... .
I do three to four of those on a local dive boat in a day. The CCR lasts day.

It'll take a loooong time to pay off if savings were my reason.
But Midthere asked about deep diving and there the equation changes a lot.

Cave explorer Curt Bowen did the math for a 300 fsw dive a while back.
He mixes his own gas for OC and CC so he comes away with lesser cost either way.
The bottom line was $50 savings per dive. His Meg, training and two VR3 computers would be paid of in 256 dives, not taking into consideration selling some the doubles and regs that have accumulated over the years.

 

[Midthere]

I want to take video and photography on my dives how proficient do you have to be before you can dive with video or still camera gear?

 

[caveseeker7]

You should be quite proficient before doing any other task than diving while using a CCR.

Not only will you need the skills to finish your class, but you have to hone them to progress.
Several noted trimix CCR instructors have mentioned lately that students showed up for trimix classes and either were turned back or had to go through skill training again due to lack of proficiency.

Aside from the different protocol used with a rebreather vs. OC as far as skills are concerned, the selfmixing units especially translate different mix in the loop than the tanks. You have to keep on top of this, at all times. Rule No. 1: "Always know your pO2 !"

Luckily most CCRs sold today offer a HUD either standard (PRISM, Evolution, Ouroboros, O2ptima) or optional from the manufacturer (Inspiration, Megalodon) or aftermarket (Inspiration, KISS dedicated systems). There is at least one manufacturer that offers a universal HUD kit.

Since these HUDs are DSV mounted they are in your field of view as long as you are on the loop.
Thus they greatly increase your awareness of your pO2 (and more on some models).
You will still need to check your gauges in regurlar intervals, but the HUDs are a great safety factor.