How many dives did you have when you did AOW

[Queen]

Many of you are saying that AOW was a joke. When I took it in '84 I thought it was a great class...has it changed much since then?? Any instructors out there that can compare the class circa 1984 to todays class??

 

[Dave Zimmerly]

Out of 108 dives, I have done 3 night dives, 90+ boat dives, countless dives to 90-130 fsw, drift dives, compass readings and wreck dives (no penetration). My air consumption is really low, and my trim and buoyancy is on the mark.

I don't need a card to prove that I've done the basics of AOW. Like Danner, I'd rather spend the money on dive vacations.

I have also learned (and still learning) from experience and being around divers who have thousands of dives under their belt.

Cards don't make a diver. Experience does.

Dave (aka "Squirt")

 

[Guba]

Well said, Tom Smedley! I agree with practically everything you've explained and evidently our experiences are similar.
I got quite a bit out of my AOW. Did I already know much of the items on the agenda? Sure, but "knowing" them and being proficient in them are different things. Did I already know how to read a compass? I'd been teaching overland navigation to Boy Scouts (and my earth science classes) for years, yet I learned a few things about how to nav underwater during the course. Could I have figured them out with time? Absolutely. Experience is sometimes the best teacher but it's not always the quickest or most efficient. I found it useful to have an expert show me some of these fine points.
I, too, found the night diver training to be useful, and the deep diving was a revelation about the effects of nitrogen narcosis. Both have made me a more careful, safer diver.
As to RonFrank's question about how often one uses a compass (out and back only?)...I dive quite a bit in Texas Lakes. Translate that into "visibility sucks!!!" Knowing more than just "out and back" techniques really makes things easier.
All this being said, I have to agree with one thing. The sequencing of the courses and the materials may need some refining. However, making the first course a hugely demanding, intensive, challenge-to-your-metal test of resolve isn't the answer. While a few might pass and be better divers for it, the majority would turn away and the ranks of divers would diminish. This would not be a good thing for diving as a whole, for any of us.

What a great thread! If folks with agencies are watching, it should be a real eye-opener.

 

[HowardE]

What a great thread! If folks with agencies are watching, it should be a real eye-opener.

This isn't the first "AOW is a joke" thread, and I'm sure it won't be the last.

Not to say that all AOW courses are a joke, it entirely depends on the instructor. Some instructors try to make it educational and a challenge, others follow the guidelines, which for several agencies are lax. Don't forget that PADI, NAUI, SSI, etc. are businesses which are FOR PROFIT. Selling courses makes money. This is one of the reasons why there exists "continuing education" so that people can take these courses and earn profits for the companies that sponsor them. Sure there is a bona fide need for advancement for many people, but let's remember what the bottom line is, and why you shouldn't expect to see a lot of these "advanced" skills being introduced at the Basic OW level.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

What? No prize? I always have some little treasure there with the last marker, usually a Stella. Smedley's partial to Corona...
Rick

Their "prize" is an AOW card with my signature on it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[b1draper]

You're taking all the specialties seperatly? I spent a few hundred bucks and took 4 specialties at once to get my AOW. (night/limited vis, deep diving, boat diving, and nav)

Yep. I'm taking each specialty class individually because it allows me to take my time diagesting the class material. Plus here in Tallahassee it's hard to find an instructor who's available to teach. So, I've ended up having a friend who's an instructor teach me as he gets time.

 

[Footslogger]

Seems to me that most of the consternation is about the title "ADVANCED" Open Water.

At the risk of repeating my earlier post I'll just say again that for me, AOW was nothing new because in the early 70's an Open Water Course (at least my NAUI one) was pretty much inclusive of today's OW and AOW. That said ...like just about everything in life, dive training has to evolve and stay current to be worthwhile and relevant.

I too think it would be a great thing if the certifying agencies were watching and reading this and other posts like it. An "ADVANCED" Open Water course probably needs to include truly advanced skills, not taught in a basic OW course.

I guess my question would be ...are "Specialties" and "Advanced Skills" being treated as one in the same by the certifying agencies ??

It'll probably never happen, but I for one would like to see a basic Open Water course include all the current skills PLUS comprehensive compass navigation. Further, I'd like to see an Advanced Open Water course incorporate Rescue, Nitrox, Deco (and maybe a few more). The rest of what diving has to offer IMHO falls in the category of "personal interest" and should be a "Specialty". If I want to dive wrecks, I'll sign up for a Wreck Course. If I want to swim into caves, I'll take a Cave Course and etc. Not sure learning about Lift Bags represented an advancement in my basic dive skills.

Getting long so I'll wrap it up. I just don't think learning about u/w photo, diving beyond 60', Boat Diving etc are what takes someone from "Basic" diving skills to "Advanced" diving skills.

I'll shut up now ...

 

[Tigerman]

This isn't the first "AOW is a joke" thread, and I'm sure it won't be the last.

Not to say that all AOW courses are a joke, it entirely depends on the instructor. Some instructors try to make it educational and a challenge, others follow the guidelines, which for several agencies are lax. Don't forget that PADI, NAUI, SSI, etc. are businesses which are FOR PROFIT. Selling courses makes money. This is one of the reasons why there exists "continuing education" so that people can take these courses and earn profits for the companies that sponsor them. Sure there is a bona fide need for advancement for many people, but let's remember what the bottom line is, and why you shouldn't expect to see a lot of these "advanced" skills being introduced at the Basic OW level.

mmmhmmm...
And the fact that if nobody was "properly trained" wed be back to trying and failing for ourselves has nothing to do with the existence of further training, or instructors for that matter?

One might debate how much of which topics should be in each course, but debating wether or not learning from other peoples experience (cause that IS what you do by taking courses) is a good thing or a bad thing is rather pointless..

 

[Rick Murchison]

Interesting, how many dive do you do where you look at a compass for more than out and back?

I'd be hard pressed to think of a dive where I don't use the compass. At the very least I set up a basic azimuth line, oriented to something I can use. That may be current, the direction from the anchor that I initially headed, something pre-calculated from a map or a topside sighting. Just one more little piece of information in my back pocket that may come in handy.
Rick

 

[HowardE]

One might debate how much of which topics should be in each course, but debating wether or not learning from other peoples experience (cause that IS what you do by taking courses) is a good thing or a bad thing is rather pointless..

This is not the debate. I have learned from my experiences, and from diving with more experienced divers. I haven't learned from course materials or by "formal training"

This debate is regarding AOW as a course, and it's value.