How many dives did you have when you did AOW

[RonFrank]

I understand that it doesn't come natrually to everyone, but navigation is not a skill that is unique to diving. One could just as easily practice their navigation skills in their backyard, or in a park with a compass. It's the same. No need to take a course in navigation... right?

Dude, you think that you can navigate in an almost zero vis state? I'm guessing that most can not. This has nothing to do with you as a diver, as we have dove together, and you are very skilled. However, if it came down to a nav drill, or if you were diving with very low vis, I think you would be lost. In in extreme low vis everything is difficult. Come dive with us in CO one day! Ten feet of vis is a walk in the park, try next to nothing.

 

[RonFrank]

It's not that they are worthless concepts... they can all be acquired skills with or without instruction. Navigation is as simple as reading a compass and recognizing landmarks. Buoyancy is nothing more than practice makes perfect.

Interesting, how many dive do you do where you look at a compass for more than out and back?

Navy Seals have some serious equipment to achieve navigation, but we are great at it?

I agree with you, mostly we just don't need it much. But I'm not so quick to act as a master of this stuff.

 

[Tom Smedley]

This question all depends on what you expect an advanced class to consist of and what you expect of an Advanced Open Water Diver. Some folks on this forum seem to think that one should be at the doctorate level after graduation from an Open Water Course. Some folks are also surprised to learn that in the diving world there is a tendency for the inflated ego. I’ve listened to “Mine is better than yours!” for almost fifty years now.

Let’s look at a scenario. You teach students the basics of diving and give them a certification card that says “You are an Open Water Diver.” Then you just say, “Adios Zoopilotes, I have your money, go fend for yourselves.” OR you can say, “Alright, come with me and learn some more stuff that will make you a better and more comfortable diver.”

To me, navigation – ever how basic – is a must. I know a retired helicopter pilot who could not navigate himself out of a paper bag under water until he learned to hold his compass level. Just because you are a champion orienteer on land does not an underwater navigator make you. Navigation is paramount to knowing where you are and making you comfortable underwater. A diver who is not comfortable is not having fun.

Deep diving – albeit only to one hundred feet – is a valuable experience generator. Your first dive to past 60 feet should not be in the company of someone with similar experience. Going with an instructor – I know I know – instructors are commonly incompetent – is far better than going it alone. I know I know – there are open water divers better than instructors (in their own minds).

Boat diving – some say this is a farce – should teach you not only to get on and off a boat but most important BOAT ETIQUITTE – How many of us have had to suffer through a completely inconsiderate jerk on a boat dive?? How to store your gear and how to act are important things to know.

Night diving – If you have never experienced the thrill and beauty of Noctiluca or the splendor of a five foot Tarpon using your light to hunt – you might as well watch NASCAR on TV or better yet enjoy your evenings watching someone else play golf or fish. Night diving is primo.

So, I look at Advanced Open Water Training as an extension of the Open Water Course. I think that a diver should get some practice between courses but I think that someone who extends their class experience is far better than one who flies by the pants seat.

So maybe we should call it EXTENDED OPEN WATER training. Or better yet – as SSI does it – SPECIALTY DIVER until we reach 24 dives and then we are ADVANCED OPEN WATER. Whatever you call it or however you decided to treat it. Any training past Open Water is an extension to one’s skills and abilities. Some of the best advanced training students I have are those that CONTINUE their EDUCATION after OPEN WATER TRAINING.

So there!!!

 

[reefugee]

I haven't done my AOW yet, but I picked 25+ because I already have 30 dives.

 

[plot]

24, SSI required amount of dives for actually getting your AOW. Although, you can take the class before then, just won't get the card until you've reached 24 dives.

 

[Gary D.]

Dude, you think that you can navigate in an almost zero vis state? I'm guessing that most can not. This has nothing to do with you as a diver, as we have dove together, and you are very skilled. However, if it came down to a nav drill, or if you were diving with very low vis, I think you would be lost. In in extreme low vis everything is difficult. Come dive with us in CO one day! Ten feet of vis is a walk in the park, try next to nothing.

Here is one way to practice out of the water.

http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/54844/cat/500/ppuser/2714

Gary D.

 

[Walter]

Define REAL Advanced class, and how can one skip AOW? I think NAUI takes a different approach than PADI, but I *think* that most (all?) agencies incorporate the concept of AOW in the training, and will require it at some point to go forward past rescue.

LA County's Advanced Diver Program is the best example. YMCA's Silver Advanced is also excellent. A very few individual instructors (MB and NWGratefulDiver are a couple examples) have developed true advanced classes and teach it as AOW.

You can take SLAM (SCUBA Lifesaving and Accident Management) without taking an Advanced class.

A better OW course would be good, a "real" AOW would be a good idea too

but as the training standards are now I had to take AOW to do Rescue

No you didn't. All you had to do was switch agencies, which would also have provided you with an alternative to AOW.

 

[terrasmak]

I started it with about 25 dives , but finished it with around 60 . I worked nights so i couldnt do the training dives during the week , nor could i get up for early dives on saturday.

 

[Tom Smedley]

Navigation is not just looking at a compass - it entails natural navigation skills too - to the point that one is aware of their surroundings and have a general idea where they are at any time during the dive. The compass is useless in zero vis navigation where one must feel the topography and draw a mental picture rather than a visual one.

During open water training the student is already in overload and out and back patterns are about as much as they should absorb. During continuing education training is where squares and triangles can be refined along with application of natural techniques.

Interesting, how many dive do you do where you look at a compass for more than out and back?

Navy Seals have some serious equipment to achieve navigation, but we are great at it?

I agree with you, mostly we just don't need it much. But I'm not so quick to act as a master of this stuff.

As far a buoyancy control - It is not simply a matter of practice makes perfect but a series of trial and errors to trim the weight system (dispersing weight, moving the tank up and down in the back pack, etc.) that makes for a comfortable diver.

All this comes with a good and well presented Advanced Open Water program.

As with everything in life some folks catch on quickly and some folks will never get it.

Walter - the LA County program is excellent but is not attainable by most folks and the YMCA Program has an excellent advanced rating. The YMCA kind of went obscure after they moved the headquarters back to Atlanta and Frankie Wingert quit.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

LA County's Advanced Diver Program is the best example. YMCA's Silver Advanced is also excellent. A very few individual instructors (MB and NWGratefulDiver are a couple examples) have developed true advanced classes and teach it as AOW.

You can take SLAM (SCUBA Lifesaving and Accident Management) without taking an Advanced class.

No you didn't. All you had to do was switch agencies, which would also have provided you with an alternative to AOW.

NAUI also does not require AOW before Rescue ... in fact, NAUI puts a lot of emphasis on rescue skills and requires some level of rescue skills to be taught in every class, starting with OW.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)