How do you feel about PADI bashing on this thread??

[RS]

Okay, I'm looking up what "banter" means.

What is this "wind from the west"??? Is there a storm in Hawaii?

 

[Diver Dennis]

Yeah Randolph, they had some high winds there.

 

[loosebits]

Fisher, what's your point? Do you think taking polls is a good way to justify your position? Why do the people on this board, including myself, who are calling for higher standards get under your skin? We simply want newly carded divers to be better prepared to dive. Does that seem so outrageous that you post polls with options such as "left wing commies" (which I am very proud to be btw) or "Old geezers" (from your other very informative poll)?

If someone asks about AOW, isn't it germane to the discussion to mention how ridiculous many AOW classes are and if they hadn't been denied decent OW instruction it wouldn't be necessary? Perhaps it will lead them to question their own OW instruction and seek better training than from the guy who couldn't teach them OW to begin with.

Yes, its been said before many times before but the original posts I'm sure were asked many times before as well. Scubaboard has a lot of redundant threads. Ask the same question, get the same set of replies.

 

[almitywife]

Originally Posted by stevead
......., what I haven't seen is anyone who places the responsibility on the divers themselves. ......

just got home from dinner with other divers.... this week stories included 2 students that completed almost 2 days of confined water and the last skill was the swim competancy

at this point the students advised their instructor that they could not swim

im amazed they got so far to be honest.... but when ask "didnt you think you should know how to swim when going into the ocean" they responded that because of the equipment they didnt think they needed to know how to swim

in this case.... i question the dive shop franchise more than the agency. some dive shops will sign up anyone without question while some students need to grow a brain

 

[fisherdvm]

Fisher, what's your point?

My point is 50% of folks reading the board do not find these comments trust worthy, or are annoyed by it.

5% find it amusing, and about 5% find it informative.

I called them left wing commies - cause one of them like to use the word "comrades".

My point is, it is a free country. Scubaboard is entertaining, and informative. When the entertainment factor is decreased by excess freedom of speech, the informative aspect is decreased.

Old geezer implies a tendency for divers trained in the old school to be very upset when new divers are not trained under their standards.

I find it very sad that there is no YMCA nor NAUI program within 100 miles of my home to enroll in. However, the free market had allowed PADI to penetrate every section of the country. But you are not going to change it by hijacking very informative thread with confusing information about politics of scuba organizations.

I lost respect for the so called "old geezers" when the threads loses their informative and entertaining factors...

Wishes the old geezers will just die... But that will take another 30 or 40 years.... In the mean time, I think the public should be able to voice their opinion. Which polls do it very objectively.

If you are offended by the word "commies" or "geezers", please, please, make your own poll...

 

[fisherdvm]

Do you think taking polls is a good way to justify your position? .

Yes, taking poll is objective.

Do the KKK justify their position by harassment and lynching?

Fornately, democracy (the ability to vote and participate in polls) wins over...

Freedom of speech will allow the KKK to march, and you to speak.

But you can't intimidate people from participating in polls.

 

[fisherdvm]

If someone asks about AOW, isn't it germane to the discussion to mention how ridiculous many AOW classes are and if they hadn't been denied decent OW instruction it wouldn't be necessary? Perhaps it will lead them to question their own OW instruction and seek better training than from the guy who couldn't teach them OW to begin with.

You are not going to change the PADI mentality. I see nearly identical curriculum with all the other organization.

The problem is - you've got alot of poorly skilled divers out there - it doesn't matter which AOW they do, they will become better divers.

We can't force them to fly 600 miles to take classes from the YMCA nor to LA... Steer them to their local LDS for AOW. That is what I did.

But I got lambasted for my recommendation. That is where the hypocrisy shows. The old geezers were not interested in the diver's welfare. They are more interested in their political agenda.

 

[fisherdvm]

Scubaboard has a lot of redundant threads. Ask the same question, get the same set of replies.

That is the reason why we have polls. We don't want to read the same c*** you guys have to spew each time.

Polls are colorful, and they can be read in less than 2 seconds. It take longer to skim over 30 pages of posts to weed out garbages like PADI bashing, to get to the core.

 

[Walter]

just got home from dinner with other divers.... this week stories included 2 students that completed almost 2 days of confined water and the last skill was the swim competancy

at this point the students advised their instructor that they could not swim

im amazed they got so far to be honest.... but when ask "didnt you think you should know how to swim when going into the ocean" they responded that because of the equipment they didnt think they needed to know how to swim

in this case.... i question the dive shop franchise more than the agency. some dive shops will sign up anyone without question while some students need to grow a brain

If it's following PADI standards, they can still be certified. They can snorkel 300 meters instead of swim 200 meters. I'm not aware of another agency whose standards allow this. In fact, at least one agency has standards that would have prevented this from happening at all. YMCA standards require completion of a swim test before confined water training can begin. There is both an entry test (200 yd swim, 25 ft underwater swim and 10 min float/tred) and an exit test (300 yd swim, 50 ft underwater swim and 15 min float/tred).

I'm sure several will consider pointing out these facts to be PADI bashing.

 

[fisherdvm]

I'm sure several will consider pointing out these facts to be PADI bashing.

No, I think this is very informative. It is very sad, and will contribute to diver's death rate. I think we all should make our views heard at PADI or any organizations that are ignoring the safety aspects of diving. One of these day, someone will call me old geezer too...

This is verbatim off PADI's site:

Waterskills: Before completing the PADI Open Water Diver course, your instructor will have you demonstrate basic waterskill comfort by having you swim 200 metres/yards (or 300 metres/yards in mask, fins and snorkel). There is no time limit for this, and you may use any swimming strokes you want. You will also float and tread water for 10 minutes, again using any methods that you want.