Hose length for Rec only diver

[RJP]

I know you're trying like hell to find situations where it's necessary to stay down and share air on a long hose, but the answer doesn't change. If the divers can ascend directly to the surface, it's a rec dive. If they can't it's not.

flots.

I will try to be clear just one more time...

I'm not saying - and have clearly never said - that it's NECESSARY for diver to stay down. Saying that's it's PREFERABLE and MORE PRUDENT to swim to the exit point at depth rather than make a direct ascent. That doesn't magically change the dive to a tec dive.

And I'm not "trying like hell" to find a situation. Those dives were real, and entirely pedestrian recreational dives I - and thousands of other divers - have been on. There was no need to share air on them... but that doesn't change the fact that ending each of those dives by returning to the exit point underwater was PREFERABLE and MORE PRUDENT than surfacing. And if there had been a need to share air, my buddy and I - who both dive long-hose - could have easily ended the dive in that PREFERABLE and MORE PRUDENT fashion without a second thought. Personally, I see great value in keeping that option available to me at all times.

On any dive from a moored boat, returning to and ascending on the upline and making a safety stop with that line as a visual reference is typically PREFERABLE and MORE PRUDENT than making a free ascent and doing a blue-water safety stop away from a boat that can't immediately come get you... even in the most benign conditions. Does that mean that diving from a moored boat can never be a recreational dive?

 

[Akimbo]

…Strange. At 6'2" I'm a full 8" taller than you walking down the street... so how can I be nearly a foot SHORTER than you from nose to fin tip while diving?...

You’re not. Hovering mid-water with your knees bent 90° isn’t swimming single-file through a tight space. I’m not a cave diver but have spent a fair amount of time on an old S-class submarine. Many of the passageways were worse than swimming through a length of 30" diameter pipe… which I have also done surface supplied.

When you are actually swimming, frog or flutter, your legs are relatively straight and your ankles are extended like a ballerina. Lay on deck with your fins on, ankles extended like you were swimming through a small space, and measure fin tip to shoulder about where the DIN centerline is on your manifold.

No need to take someone’s word for it. Anybody can lay gear out on their garage floor simulating two divers swimming head-fin. It’s really worse when you do the actual hose routing than just adding up the measurements.

 

[RJP]

You’re not. Hovering mid-water with your knees bent 90° isn’t swimming. When you are actually swimming, frog or flutter, your legs are relatively straight and your ankles are extended like a ballerina.

In point of fact, I am swimming in both of those photos... not "hovering mid-water." I spend most of my time in the water doing a modified frog-kick, knees bent 90deg, gently rolling/flicking my ankles, as seen in the video below.

[video=youtube;RM97xHxzmTA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM97xHxzmTA[/video]

No need to take someone’s word for it. Anybody can lay gear out on their garage floor simulating two divers swimming head-fin. It’s really worse when you do the actual hose routing than just adding up the measurements.

I don't need to take anyone's word for it... or lay on the garage floor. Why?

Because I have actually exited caves and wrecks, single-file, using a 7ft hose, many times, with both myself and the other diver being >6ft tall. I'm not sure what happens in the ScubaBoard hypothetical world - or on a garage floor - but I can assure that in the real world, a 7ft hose is long enough.

 

[Akimbo]

In point of fact, I am swimming in both of those photos... not "hovering mid-water." I spend most of my time in the water doing a modified frog-kick, knees bent 90deg, gently rolling/flicking my ankles, as seen in the video below...

Maybe, but you’ll never get through a small hatch or passageway like that, nor will the diver following you.

 

[RJP]

Maybe, but you’ll never get through a small hatch or passageway like that, nor will the diver following you.

A buddy of mine did a tongue-in-cheek academic project once, wherein he hypothesized - and proved mathematically - that bats can't fly. All that real-world evidence to the contrary be damned!

Is there a certain combination of restriction size, diver-height, and propulsion technique for which a 7ft hose is not sufficiently long? Sure. Just as bats cannot actually fly off the ground.

However, in 99% of practical application scenarios in the real world it seems that bats - and 7ft hoses - fly just fine.

 

[cib]

I sense some focus may be required. Being the person who originally posed the question, let me please describe the kind of diving I do.
The vast majority is open, warm, tropical water (Maldives, Middle East, Egyptian Red Sea) with the odd wreck (yes ... Overhead environment but it is still rec (excuse the pun) diving in my book). I have, so far, never penetrated a wreck but plan to do so next week on the Zenobia in Cyprus.
Although I may be in a BP/W, my wife who is my buddy 95% of the time, is in a jacket with a standard hose set and being the likely one who would ever be requesting my hose (hopefully never), she'd like something to breath from to end the dive within arms reach. So for me, the scenario is merely to exit a wreck and surface, I would consider the spaces we would occupy to be large enough that a 40" would be fine. Therefore, ignoring tec/cave or overhead scenarios, I ask which will provide the best streamlined, comfortable hose set?

I am already excluding a 5' as I may as well just use the 40" (with a swivel) I have on my octo and save money. They would both sit similarly on my body it seems for streamlining. A 6 or 7' could be tucked in to sit tight.

 

[Hatul]

The first time someone rips the 2nd stage out of your mouth and yanks you by the bungie necklace you'll change that set up.

Also, sorry about you being a 'short hoser'.

If someone grabs my primary (on the bungee necklace) it's not a big deal, as it will slip out of the bungee if pulled hard enough.

I should also add that the one time that I was "out of air" (broken mouthpiece) I did not go for my buddy's primary but her octo, which was clipped in the conventional rec way. It was very simple support without any swaps.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I sense some focus may be required. Being the person who originally posed the question, let me please describe the kind of diving I do.
The vast majority is open, warm, tropical water (Maldives, Middle East, Egyptian Red Sea) with the odd wreck (yes ... Overhead environment but it is still rec (excuse the pun) diving in my book). I have, so far, never penetrated a wreck but plan to do so next week on the Zenobia in Cyprus.
Although I may be in a BP/W, my wife who is my buddy 95% of the time, is in a jacket with a standard hose set and being the likely one who would ever be requesting my hose (hopefully never), she'd like something to breath from to end the dive within arms reach. So for me, the scenario is merely to exit a wreck and surface, I would consider the spaces we would occupy to be large enough that a 40" would be fine. Therefore, ignoring tec/cave or overhead scenarios, I ask which will provide the best streamlined, comfortable hose set?

I am already excluding a 5' as I may as well just use the 40" (with a swivel) I have on my octo and save money. They would both sit similarly on my body it seems for streamlining. A 6 or 7' could be tucked in to sit tight.

Getting off topic, are they?

You're right--your question was the original topic. And I see that your initial reluctance to go for a 6 or 7 foot hose is wearing off. Your 40-inch with a swivel, a 6-foot, or a 7-foot--any of these would be fine choices for you, as all would end up being comfortable and streamlined, as you've seen in previous replies.

 

[RJP]

If you want to have a long hose and have that rec/tec look knock yourself out. Logic rules out favorability for entanglement risk and streamlining...

I am already excluding a 5' as I may as well just use the 40" (with a swivel) I have on my octo and save money. They would both sit similarly on my body it seems for streamlining. A 6 or 7' could be tucked in to sit tight.

I think the OP - and anyone else who doesn't actually dive a properly configured 7ft hose rig - will be surprised to discover how much MORE streamlined an 84" hose is when you compare it to the typically "streamlined" recreational configuration of a 40" hose.

That "tec/rec look" sure seems to have the favorability edge in terms of both entanglement risk and streamlining...

 

[Lorenzoid]

One might conclude from all the "thumbs up" and other bizarre hand signals in RJP's dorky-diver pics that dangling hoses cause divers to end dives sooner and be unable to signal intelligible numerical values.