Hose length for Rec only diver

[Roman_66]

A recreational dive where a direct ascent to the surface is not possible, is not a recreational dive.

What about dive from boat ? Because boat can be exactly on top of diver and will prevent a direct ascent to the surface.
There are some other situations when a direct ascent to the surface is not recommended.

for that rare occurrence you have to put up with the inconvenience of the long hose all the time.
..................
Also with the long hose system practicing air sharing may involve more infectious risk as the regulator goes from one mouth to another.

For that rear occurrence (buddy OOG) diver actually takes octopus, so why not to do it on way that gas sharing will be simple (you actually also confirmed it)?
Regarding inconvenience, it is depends of training . After 3-4 dives with instructor and long hose all inconveniences should disappear.

 

[eelnoraa]

A recreational dive where a direct ascent to the surface is not possible, is not a recreational dive.

It is possible from no overhead or no deco point of view, but often direct ascent to surface is not the best choice. There could be boat traffic, surface current, thick kelp, and a few times I have encounter jelly fishes were occupy 10-40ft of water and clear below 50ft. In these situation, I would much rather share air and swim underwater to exist point.

 

[KenGordon]

Nice try.

You: > Keep in mind that while a recreational dive is - by definition - one where direct, immediate ascent to the surface is always possible... it's not always DESIRABLE and, in fact may not even be SAFE to do so.


Me: > If it's unsafe, that makes it, by definition, "not a recreational dive". It it's just "undesirable", that makes it a learning experience to not run out of air next time.

A recreational dive where a direct ascent to the surface is not possible, is not a recreational dive.

That seems pretty plain to me.

flots.

So a dive with an OOA incident is only a rec dive if it happened because they went too deep or stayed too long but had no stops. If they went too deep or stayed too long resulting in stops they didn't have enough gas for then was a tec dive?

Btw I don't buy in to this tec/rec distinction in any case, but even if I did I don't think it applies when you are sorting out issues which can be caused by user error.

 

[halocline]

I keep my primary regulator on a bungee necklace so I can't lose it and the octo clipped to the right side D ring with a bungee loop and cord lock to control the tension.

The first time someone rips the 2nd stage out of your mouth and yanks you by the bungie necklace you'll change that set up.

Also, sorry about you being a 'short hoser'.

 

[RJP]

Nice try.

You: > Keep in mind that while a recreational dive is - by definition - one where direct, immediate ascent to the surface is always possible... it's not always DESIRABLE and, in fact may not even be SAFE to do so.


Me: > If it's unsafe, that makes it, by definition, "not a recreational dive". It it's just "undesirable", that makes it a learning experience to not run out of air next time.

A recreational dive where a direct ascent to the surface is not possible, is not a recreational dive.

That seems pretty plain to me.

flots.

Note - In my examples in the post further above, I never said a direct ascent to the surface was not possible, I specifically said it was not desirable or possibly even unsafe.

So, you're doing a 70ft dive for 45min in OW off a boat moored to the bow of a 300ft long busted up wreck. When you entered the water there was a pretty good surface current, very windy, and 3-4ft waves. You and your buddy have run a line to the stern. At that point a direct ascent from where you are IS POSSIBLE, but it would be far from desirable. At what point in the scenario did that stop being a recreational dive? When you and your buddy decide to simply and safely reel yourself back to mooring line, ascend on it, do your safety stop on it, follow the down-line to the back of the boat, and climb up the ladder it magically became a "tech dive"? But in your definition it would remain a recreational dive, though, if you guys did a free ascent and surfaced 4-500ft down current, and moving further away by the second, from a moored boat that can't come get you for a while. But that's no problem,,, because it has magically remained a recreational dive because you ascended directly to the surface? Which approach would be safer?

Now you're diving in Southern California where there's lots of kelp at the surface. You CAN ascend directly to the surface and fight your way through the kelp on the surface - risking entanglement and exhaustion - but it would probably be a better idea to use your compass to navigate back to the exit point at 35ft. When did THIS dive stop being a recreational dive?

Night dive at Sunset House in Cayman Islands? A direct ascent at your turn point along the reef means surfacing in the dark, away from the hotel and either a long surface swim in pretty good chop and wind back to the hotel, a good surface swim the other direction to do a rough surf exit onto rocks, or you and your buddy somehow scale the 10ft ocean wall that runs the length of the hotel. Or you swim back at depth to the entry point... and climb up the ladder. Rec or tec?

 

[GDI]

Nope shouldn't be any friction or rubbing

 

[flots am]

So a dive with an OOA incident is only a rec dive if it happened because they went too deep or stayed too long but had no stops. If they went too deep or stayed too long resulting in stops they didn't have enough gas for then was a tec dive?

Btw I don't buy in to this tec/rec distinction in any case, but even if I did I don't think it applies when you are sorting out issues which can be caused by user error.

Your sentence confuses the hell out of me, but assuming I parsed it correctly, a dive that has a decompression obligation or an overhead obstruction is not a recreational dive, and a recreational diver is not trained to handle it.

flots

---------- Post added October 13th, 2014 at 08:48 AM ----------

Note - In my examples in the post further above, I never said a direct ascent to the surface was not possible, I specifically said it was not desirable or possibly even unsafe.

I don't care much about undesirable, but if surfacing is unsafe, it's not a rec dive.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .

I'm unsure how Akimbo's 5'8" height presents a theoretical challenge to using a 7ft hose as intended, seeing as my cave instructor and I are both over 6ft tall and we had no problem in actual use.

If it were "on the short side" for the intended use - as theorized - don't you think somewhere some cave diver would have noticed that?

I was merely voicing approval at someone actually having backed up a novel conclusion with a calculation of sorts. I have no opinion on the merits of his conclusion, but he does have a lot more experience than I do, so I'm not about to call BS on his conclusion. You're free to do that.

As for me, living just a few hours north of cave country FL, I have come to believe the cave divers have developed some knowledge that can benefit us rec divers, which is why I chose to adopt some of their thinking by way of GUE. I have full faith in the merits of the 7-foot hose for tec divers, and as pretty much everyone who has actually used one will agree, even though it may be longer than a rec diver needs it's not the least bit unwieldy or obtrusive.

 

[RJP]

I don't care much about undesirable, but if surfacing is unsafe, it's not a rec dive.

So then, what happens if you're a recreational diver on a recreational dive and conditions change such that it's unsafe to surface directly where you are? Does that dive magically become a tec dive? Do you magically become a tec diver?

The three dives I mentioned above are not some bizarre confluence of events that could never happen in the setting of a recreational dive... they are fairly commonplace conditions that a recreational diver could easily encounter.

 

[flots am]

So then, what happens if you're a recreational diver on a recreational dive and conditions change such that it's unsafe to surface directly where you are? Does that dive magically become a tec dive? Do you magically become a tec diver?

If a rec diver has an emergency in a situation that doesn't allow a direct ascent to the surface, DAN probably gets another bit of data for their annual report.

The three dives I mentioned above are not some bizarre confluence of events that could never happen in the setting of a recreational dive... they are fairly commonplace conditions that a recreational diver could easily encounter.

I know you're trying like hell to find situations where it's necessary to stay down and share air on a long hose, but the answer doesn't change. If the divers can ascend directly to the surface, it's a rec dive. If they can't it's not.

flots.