Hose length for Rec only diver

[Akimbo]

It still comes down to 7' is too short if you actually want to exit a small opening single file. I’m only 5' 6" (66") and fin-top to shoulder (about where a regulator would be) measures 80". Add 7" from my mouth to the top of my head and you have 86" — 2" short already. Now add in a small loop off the first and second stages and you need at least another 8" for 94". Now add in another 6" for a not-especially tall male and you need more than 102" or 8' 6". Even then the hose has no slack or allowance for snaking around gear on the donating diver.

Basically a 7' hose is 1½-2' short if you really plan single file exits without the diver in the back getting smacked in the face by the other diver’s fins. I have yet to see a reasonable justification for a 7' hose on anyone, especially an open water diver.

 

[Roman_66]

I don't have canister light yet and use ACB Integrated Weight Systems for store weights and keep long hose trap secured.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Basically a 7' hose is 1½-2' short if you really plan single file exits without the diver in the back getting smacked in the face by the other diver’s fins. I have yet to see a reasonable justification for a 7' hose on anyone, especially an open water diver.

That's an interesting analysis. I had never heard anyone say 7 feet is too short, but perhaps it IS on the short side for what the cave divers argue it's intended for.

To me, a "reasonable justification" for choosing 7 feet was that I wanted to adopt the donate-the-primary approach, which required a "long" hose, but I wasn't familiar at the time with the school of thought that uses a commonly available ("octo-length") 40-inch hose, and I didn't want to bother with trying to add a swivel or elbow to the 5-foot hose I tried initially and felt was too short. It was easy enough where I live to just buy a 7-foot rubber hose like the cave divers and be done with it. It's long enough to support the donate-the-primary approach, and even though it may be longer than necessary to do that, the extra length is hardly noticeable to me--indeed I find the routing entirely comfortable.

If the OP can readily acquire a hose that meets his needs, I certainly wouldn't push a 7 footer on him. The 7 footer works fine for me, though.

 

[eelnoraa]

It still comes down to 7' is too short if you actually want to exit a small opening single file. I’m only 5' 6" (66") and fin-top to shoulder (about where a regulator would be) measures 80". Add 7" from my mouth to the top of my head and you have 86" — 2" short already. Now add in a small loop off the first and second stages and you need at least another 8" for 94". Now add in another 6" for a not-especially tall male and you need more than 102" or 8' 6". Even then the hose has no slack or allowance for snaking around gear on the donating diver.

Basically a 7' hose is 1½-2' short if you really plan single file exits without the diver in the back getting smacked in the face by the other diver’s fins. I have yet to see a reasonable justification for a 7' hose on anyone, especially an open water diver.

I think cave divers usually will have knees banded. I guess that shorten the over length. Also my guess is that in small passage, they will use modified fog kick, the movement of the fins are small. Maybe this is where the 7' comes from

 

[KenGordon]

I have used a 2.1m long hose in anger on a recreational dive. I arrived at the safety stop to find a diver low on gas with 8 or 10 minutes of stops showing. This was because stuff had not gone to plan. So we sat out the stops on my gas all nice and relaxed and no closer than we would have been on our own gas. On a 1m hose it would have still worked but been much less relaxed.

Not all cases of gas donation are the classic CBL in a mad panic seemingly imagined here. Not all rec dives are stop free.

Ps get some training though, at least be sure not to get all tangled in a bungeed secondary.

PPS a pair of shears or a knife does ok if you do not have a can light.

 

[mruseless]

Before I went the GUE route, I used to use a 40" hose on my primary second stage with a swivel. I had two main problems with it, both of which were solved by a long hose configuration. The first problem was that even with the hose swivel, routing under the R arm creates at least some amount of force pulling downward on the reg in your mouth. I found this to be very uncomfortable, and even resulted in raw spots on my lower gums after liveaboard diving (5 a day). The second problem was related to ladders. I like to keep my reg in my mouth when on the ladder, then as I start to climb I let the reg fall out of my mouth. With a 40" hose routed under my arm, the reg would fall away and smack the ladder. I suppose I could have mitigated this with a boltsnap about 6" down the hose.

With the long hose, any small force on the reg as you turn your head will be sideways. Since I switched I have not had any problems with mouth sores developing. And since the hose is routed across the chest and behind the head, if you drop the reg out of your mouth it naturally hangs just a few inches down.

I'm not sure if my GUE instructor would approve of dropping the reg out of my mouth. He would probably prefer I keep it in until I'm at the top of the ladder then clip it off. Or have the bolt snap attached about 6" down the hose so I could clip it off before going up the ladder and still keep it in my mouth.

 

[RJP]

If it's unsafe, that makes it, by definition, "not a recreational dive".

So "by definition" recreational dives are never "unsafe"?

Nonsense.

---------- Post added October 12th, 2014 at 08:26 PM ----------

It still comes down to 7' is too short if you actually want to exit a small opening single file. I’m only 5' 6" (66") and fin-top to shoulder (about where a regulator would be) measures 80". Add 7" from my mouth to the top of my head and you have 86" —

Strange. At 6'2" I'm a full 8" taller than you walking down the street... so how can I be nearly a foot SHORTER than you from nose to fin tip while diving?

---------- Post added October 12th, 2014 at 09:30 PM ----------

That's an interesting analysis. I had never heard anyone say 7 feet is too short, but perhaps it IS on the short side for what the cave divers argue it's intended for.

I'm unsure how Akimbo's 5'8" height presents a theoretical challenge to using a 7ft hose as intended, seeing as my cave instructor and I are both over 6ft tall and we had no problem in actual use.

If it were "on the short side" for the intended use - as theorized - don't you think somewhere some cave diver would have noticed that?

 

[halocline]

As I recall Hogartian is a harness / BC style,not a hose configuration...

For recreational diving It remains my sentiment that the long hose is unnecessary. I chose that term in place of several more incendiary words like silly and nonsense....

If you want to have a long hose and have that rec/tec look knock yourself out. Logic rules out favorability for entanglement risk and streamlining but the downsides are so limited I'll call them nill.

Pete

Hogarthian diving is a set of principles that includes a minimalist gear configuration for cave diving. The BC style and hose configuration are both parts of this configuration. Much of the DIR stuff came directly from hogarthian principles.

I dive with a 5ft primary 2nd stage hose and bungied alternate 2nd stage in OW because:

1) It is far more comfortable and streamlined than the typical 'PADI' set up.
2) It is far more comfortable for air sharing. This is especially true in an emergency, during which experience has taught me that the 2nd stage is likely to get yanked right out of your mouth. You wouldn't believe how fast an OOA diver can do this.

It has nothing to do with a 'rec/tec look' and to be honest I'm a bit annoyed that a reasonable and knowledgeable person like you would make a comment like that.

Sure, it's not necessary to use a long hose in OW, but for me it is more enjoyable. And there is zero question that it presents less of an entanglement hazard and provides more flexibility for air sharing.

 

[flots am]

So "by definition" recreational dives are never "unsafe"?

Nice try.

You: > Keep in mind that while a recreational dive is - by definition - one where direct, immediate ascent to the surface is always possible... it's not always DESIRABLE and, in fact may not even be SAFE to do so.


Me: > If it's unsafe, that makes it, by definition, "not a recreational dive". It it's just "undesirable", that makes it a learning experience to not run out of air next time.

A recreational dive where a direct ascent to the surface is not possible, is not a recreational dive.

That seems pretty plain to me.

flots.

 

[Hatul]

As I recall Hogartian is a harness / BC style,not a hose configuration. The long hose concept evolved out of the cave/wreck community where the need to follow end to end is a real possibility. Also, it did not originate with DIR/GUE though they are frequently credited/blamed.

For recreational diving It remains my sentiment that the long hose is unnecessary. I chose that term in place of several more incendiary words like silly and nonsense.

My preference is to leave the primary second stage in a standard hose length configuration and in my mouth. The alternate is on a standard length alternate hose (40"?) waiting in silicone loop keeper on the left shoulder. If I need to air share the alternate presents perfectly to the needy diver face to face or swimming side by side. If I need it, it's instantly accessible upside down and with a flick of the hose over my head right side up for longer term use. I have considerable experience diving in each deployment. I believe this configuration is common in the UK (BSA?) and was used in my PDIC open water class.

If you want to have a long hose and have that rec/tec look knock yourself out. Logic rules out favorability for entanglement risk and streamlining but the downsides are so limited I'll call them nill.

Pete

I'm also a short hoser. I've shared air with the short hose method both as a receiver and a donor and it's fine. Yes if you want to swim together a long hose is more comfortable but for that rare occurrence you have to put up with the inconvenience of the long hose all the time. I tried the 5 foot braided hose a few times and missed the simplicity of the short hose. For cave or wreck diving it's a different story.

Also with the long hose system practicing air sharing may involve more infectious risk as the regulator goes from one mouth to another.

I keep my primary regulator on a bungee necklace so I can't lose it and the octo clipped to the right side D ring with a bungee loop and cord lock to control the tension.