Hose length for Rec only diver

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It seems to me that the general opinion (on Scubaboard at least) is that the 7' hose is best overall!! I think it really needs to be coupled with a short hose on a bungie around my neck for the octo. My LDS, unfortunately, has neither and can only supply the 40" with a swivel joint. I think I must go that route simply due to availability but I will be trying out a long hose in the near future.

Next dilemma, I often use a go pro on a simple handle mount but like to tuck it away when not in use. Any suggestions where or how? I was trying to figure it out last night but couldn't find a good location due to the SPG on my left hip, my Octo (currently) tucked in to my right d-ring and no pockets. If someone can suggest a streamlined pocket that can be easily removed when not needed, I'd be interested. Not one of the large mask pockets please.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions guys!
 
As I recall Hogartian is a harness / BC style,not a hose configuration. The long hose concept evolved out of the cave/wreck community where the need to follow end to end is a real possibility. Also, it did not originate with DIR/GUE though they are frequently credited/blamed.

For recreational diving It remains my sentiment that the long hose is unnecessary. I chose that term in place of several more incendiary words like silly and nonsense.

My preference is to leave the primary second stage in a standard hose length configuration and in my mouth. The alternate is on a standard length alternate hose (40"?) waiting in silicone loop keeper on the left shoulder. If I need to air share the alternate presents perfectly to the needy diver face to face or swimming side by side. If I need it, it's instantly accessible upside down and with a flick of the hose over my head right side up for longer term use. I have considerable experience diving in each deployment. I believe this configuration is common in the UK (BSA?) and was used in my PDIC open water class.

If you want to have a long hose and have that rec/tec look knock yourself out. Logic rules out favorability for entanglement risk and streamlining but the downsides are so limited I'll call them nill.

Pete
 
Next dilemma, I often use a go pro on a simple handle mount but like to tuck it away when not in use. Any suggestions where or how? I was trying to figure it out last night but couldn't find a good location due to the SPG on my left hip, my Octo (currently) tucked in to my right d-ring and no pockets. If someone can suggest a streamlined pocket that can be easily removed when not needed, I'd be interested. Not one of the large mask pockets please.

Seeing as you've just hijacked your own thread... I'll play along. :d

Do you believe that a D-ring is only able to accommodate ONE thing clipped off to it?

Below you'll see me with my GoPro (with large double-handle tray and two Sola lights on flexible arms) clipped off to my left chest d-ring. I've thought of putting another clip on it to allow clipping to both left and right d-rings, but I haven't found it necessary to streamline that much further. Plus, with only one clip I can access the camera and shoot in a few seconds with only one hand.

Carib_112113_033.jpg


With a standard BP/W configuration - and a simple bolt-snap cave-tied to the GoPro tray - I have the flexibility to clip the camera off to my left hip, left chest, right chest, or butt d-ring. This flexibility is far better than only having one "pocket" to stow it in. Also allows for near-instant access to the camera, because you know that the moment you get the camera stuffed into some pocket a leprechaun diving a rebreather riding a whale shark will swim right past you.

:d
 
Keep in mind that while a recreational dive is - by definition - one where direct, immediate ascent to the surface is always possible... it's not always DESIRABLE and, in fact may not even be SAFE to do so.

If it's unsafe, that makes it, by definition, "not a recreational dive". It it's just "undesirable", that makes it a learning experience to not run out of air next time.

You may need to navigate and swim a distance back to an exit point or up line. Ever try air sharing, with a standard recreational rig while navigating with a compass? There may be boat traffic, surface vegetation, waves, current or other reasons why ascending immediately upon air-share would be best avoided if at all possible. A 7ft hose provides recreational divers with that option in a way that a standard recreational set up simply cannot.

None of those things are necessary or recommended during an emergency on an Open Water dive, and any of them that prevents surfacing makes it not an open water dive.

The procedure is to share air, surface with your buddy and attain positive buoyancy: "share air, go up"

All this other swimming around is only good for having two out of air divers.

flots.
 
I would say that 98% (if not 99%) of scuba divers TODAY use a 36 to 40 inch hose on the secondary and donate that regulator (conventional octopus) and have a 22 to 26 inch on their primary. You can live in scuba board fantasy land if you like.

I suspect that were it not for "Scubaboard fantasy land" in the first place, the OP in Qatar would not have bought a DSS BP/W and been weighing his options with the various hose configurations.

Discussions on forums like this can help divers realize there are other ways to do things that might improve their diving. Nothing wrong with experimentation and adopting what seems to work better, even if the improvement is marginal.

As I mentioned previously, I'm a recreational diver and I think the long-hose primary benefits me and my buddy, however marginally that may be, over what I was taught in OW class. We have trained to use it, and it's second nature now. I find nothing unwieldy about it--admittedly after taking some time to get used to it.
 
I have used both standard recreational rig and also tech rig and have no bias to either in that both suit their purpose. I like the idea of the long hose.

I would however comment on swivel hoses. If you have one fitted to your primary reg, just remember if you blow it and are in anything like a semi remote place, they probably wont have a hose to replace it. The Oceanic swivel hose on my delta 4 requires a swivel hose only as a replacement, or if you wish to replace it with a standard hose, also the fitting within the reg including the valve seat. I have changed all my hoses, whether long or short to standard hose fittings with no swivel or anything that will be an issue overseas. Then if I blow a hose, I have some sort of a chance to buy, borrow or steal a hose that will get me though the diving.

I did the same with my Oceanic Pro Plus 2 HP hose which is a special hose for that computer. Now I have had made up special fittings to adapt a standard HP hose to fit the computer. This means the hose is cheaper to replace ($130 compared to maybe $30) and also something more available in most areas.
 
The alternate is on a standard length alternate hose (40"?) waiting in silicone loop keeper on the left shoulder. If I need to air share the alternate presents perfectly to the needy diver face to face or swimming side by side. If I need it, it's instantly accessible

Except that silicone loops or the hundred other octo holders don't always keep 2nd stages very well... how many divers do you see with it dragging along underneath them because it escaped and they didn't realise. For years I did the same and was guilty of it myself... then one day I got trapped under a reef ledge in shallow water hunting lobster when a huge swell came over, ripped my mask off and my reg out. Went to grab the alternate, in it's silicone loop on my shoulder, but it too was somewhere behind me flailing in the current. Meanwhile the surge reversed and I was jammed under there with no mask, no primary and no alternate accessible. Was probably only for 10 or 20 seconds but it seemed like forever, that day I went home and put my alternate on a short hose bungeed under my chin where I know it will always be if I need it.

A panicking OOA diver isn't going to calmly come up and take your alternate out of it's silicone holder on your shoulder (if it's even there)... they are most likely going to yank whatever is in your mouth, out, no matter what length of hose it's attached to.
 
I would say that 98% (if not 99%) of scuba divers TODAY use a 36 to 40 inch hose on the secondary and donate that regulator (conventional octopus) and have a 22 to 26 inch on their primary.
I very much agree with the general observation. Whether it is 98% or 99%, or a slightly lower figure, the majority of divers I see use what I have come to call a 'standard' second stage hose configuration. Where I might disagree is on the most common primary length, which I see as being ~30", rather than 22-26". But, that is a minor disagreement. Most of our rental regulators, our pool regulators, and what we have sold over recent years to the majority of recreational divers has been a 30" / 40" second stage hose combination.

And, that configuration does 'work', in no small part because true OOA situations really are very uncommon, they occur more often with less experienced divers who generally aren't going that deep anyway, and in those situations the diver(s) ascend immediately and rapidly to the surface (sharing air) without serious consequence. They usually aren't 1800' away from an exit, and don't need to swim single file through restricted passageways in order to get to that exit. Instead, they simply go directly to the surface, even if it means surfacing away from a boat, for example.

Where I will possibly disagree is in regard to whether the situation can / should continue to be improved, even if it has 'worked' for many years. On one hand, there is the oft-cited view, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. It has worked, so why is there a need for any change? And, even if there is a need for 'change', why not focus on better / earlier / more effective gas management training, so that OOAs become unheard of, not just uncommon? Good questions, albeit not necessarily answered by contemporary practice. The needed change in training may be just as much part of a 'scuba board fantasy land', as the widespread use of a longer primary hose.

In the absence of such a successful universal change in training, I elected to adjust my configuration to support what I perceive to be a more efficient / effective way to address the rare OOA situation, that is to: a) be prepared to actively donate to the OOA diver a 'primary' second stage - something that is in a location that I (or the OOA diver) can easily and immediately access, something that I know to be working at the instant that I donate it, and something that is attached to a hose long enough to comfortably allow for air sharing; and b) have then immediately available for my use an alternate second stage that I is (also) in a location that I can easily access, something that I know to be capable of working just as well as the primary second stage I have just donated to someone else, and something that is attached to a hose long enough to comfortably allow for breathing, but not so long that it is either not streamlined, or so long as to make immediate retrieval less efficient. For me, that means putting a second stage identical / equivalent to the primary second stage, on a bungee necklace so it is positioned right below my mouth and can be put in my mouth quickly, or even without the use of my hands.

The question to be answered is what hose lengths are optimal to support those two goals. I can accomplish those goals with a 'standard' hose length setup - I use the (formerly) primary second stage 30" hose for my (now) alternate, and I use the (formerly) alternate second stage 40" hose for my (now) primary. Works well, I don't need to change hose lengths at all. I need to put a bungee necklace on my (formerly) primary second stage. And, I DO need to be sure that i have two identical / equivalent second stages - no cheap, low performance, needlessly 'de-tuned' octos need apply. Given what gear costs overall, an extra ~$100 invested in a(nother) good second stage is a trivial investment.

I can also adjust the lengths of both hoses, if I wish, to improve utility - I can change the 30" hose out for a shorter (~22") hose for my necklace second stage (what the OP is proposing to do). And, I can also opt for a longer hose primary hose (e.g. 5', 7'). That has been my personal choice, and it (7' primary hose) works well for me. If I am diving a wreck, and my buddy goes OOA away from the tie-in point, I donate a second stage on a longer hose, and we swim comfortably back to the tie-in point, and make a normal, controlled ascent. That works for me. But, I also dive a reg that still has a 30" (alternate) and a 40" (primary) second stage hose, and that 'works' for me as well.

Just because we have used a particular approach for years doesn't mean we can't improve (if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always gotten). Just because we have made improvements doesn't mean an older approach doesn't still 'work'.
 
And carrying around a pretend can light so you can loop seven feet of cave hose under it for open water diving is not minimalism, it is complication. It is not needed, do not use it, that is minimalism.
N

The point of the can simulator is so you don't have to re-learn the muscle memory when you switch between tucking the hose and catching it under a Canister. If you're never ever going to touch a can light in 10000000 years, there's no need. Just tuck it and you're good. Deploying the long hose from around the PVC dongle is the same motion as deploying from around a can, so you only need to learn one movement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
With regard to "tucking the loop" without a can light, I find that a pocket such as this one, which fits on the waist webbing where the can light would be, is convenient and hardly deviates from "minimalist," since it's just one pocket and serves a dual purpose:

SCUBA Diving Equipment for Technical, Sidemount, Rebreather, Wreck and Cave Diving: Dive Rite, Inc - Product Catalog - Bellows Zip Pocket w/Daisy Chain

It can be removed readily or retained in place the same way a can light or plastic rod would normally be.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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