HOG Reg Serviceability

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I think one thing that also happened is more people are buying the regs and getting them serviced as they should. I know myself I have gone through more kits this year so far than the last six months of last year. I've ordered them in twice this year so far. I like that my customers are getting them done now instead of waiting til mid June or July and telling me they need them yesterday as often happens with many shops. I have to say though that my customers to this point have been very good about getting them in early. Not just this year. One thing I have always tried to do is be honest and up front about turn around times. I know now that I may have to delay someone. My regulars and students come first. And I won't tear a reg down if I don't have parts on hand.
 
My comments were in support of Chris and his business model, regardless of what it had to do with anything. A way of bringing to light the fact that there is a difference with Hog and being able to freely aquire parts and self serve, a lot of us really appreciate it and if you don't move on to a brand that you will appreciate more, because we are happy with our Hogs and the model. That is what it had to do with.

You do realize that Hog was not the first manufacturer to sell service kits. You can purchase kits for Dive Rite and Zeagle also. I think OMS, Salvo, and Oxycheq used to sell kits also. What really set Hog apart was the aggressive pricing on the products.

---------- Post added April 11th, 2014 at 08:08 PM ----------

I think one thing that also happened is more people are buying the regs and getting them serviced as they should. I know myself I have gone through more kits this year so far than the last six months of last year. I've ordered them in twice this year so far.

So you are the cause of Hog's supply shortage! :D
 
Agree.
How, when and where etc to service the reg is not the point.
Imagine you offer a service course and then say sorry spare parts are NOT available.
or We cannot offer the course because the spare parts are not yet available and please come back in few months time.
or Someone want to buy a HOG and enquire the respective spare parts and then been told it is NOT available for another few months!!!
Good PR.

Holy crapola. In what world does every item you bring in for service always have the parts immediately available? Does your local car dealer never have to order parts in or wait on a back order? Even the Maytag repairman has to deal with backordered parts from time to time.

We live in a world of global supply chains. Sometimes delays happen, for any one of a whole host of reasons. A couple of weeks delay (not months) in parts availability is hardly a massive crime, ESPECIALLY for a new product.

EDIT: Just read additional posts from the manufacturer. Sales forecasts are very often (almost always) based on less than perfect information. I view this as an annoyance, but certainly not a major problem.
 
You do realize that Hog was not the first manufacturer to sell service kits. You can purchase kits for Dive Rite and Zeagle also. I think OMS, Salvo, and Oxycheq used to sell kits also. What really set Hog apart was the aggressive pricing on the products.


Wow, yes, that is something I do realize, I actually own Dive Rite Regs and bought them for the same reasons, the OP and complainer were referencing Hog so was I. Just a note, Dive Rite has eliminated the self-service approach starting with their XT offerings, that actually caused me to pass on the XTs which were more expensive than Hogs. Obviously given a choice of several brands offering self service with essentially the same performance, price could affect the choice for some people.

For me price does factor in, since I hate reconfiguring regs for different situations so I have dedicated reg sets for left and right post BM, left and right SM, singles rec rig x 3, bottom gas stages, multiple deco, and spares, just over 20 stages total. The math is easy.

Regardless of price and where this discussion seems to be heading, my original comment stands and so does the support for the overall experience and business model, the basis is unchanged regardless of "What made Hog so popular", myself and many others really appreciate the self-service concept. Just so happens I'm commenting on the one specific brand this thread was focusing on.

And for the record all of my Hogs were either purchased from Edd at CA who was nice enough to lend me some to try out the first time, or my favorite tech friendly LDS next town over, no mail orders.
 
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Holy crapola. In what world does every item you bring in for service always have the parts immediately available? Does your local car dealer never have to order parts in or wait on a back order? Even the Maytag repairman has to deal with backordered parts from time to time.

There are parts and there are consumables. Service kits are consumables. I would understand if the person needed a regulator body and one was not available at a dealer because that is a part. However, a service kit contains consumables that need to be replaced on a regular basis. You local car dealer may not have a part in stock but can usually get it within a day or so. Tell me what part you have ever ordered for a non-exotic automobile that takes weeks to arrive?

We live in a world of global supply chains. Sometimes delays happen, for any one of a whole host of reasons. A couple of weeks delay (not months) in parts availability is hardly a massive crime, ESPECIALLY for a new product.

We also live in a world of overnight delivery. The manufacturer's supply chain is their business not the customers. The manufacturer should take lead time into account when deciding when to place orders and how much product to purchase. Going back to your automobile example, what if a dealer told you that the part for your new car won't be in for a couple of weeks and you need to walk? I am sure you would consider this a massive crime especially if it happened to you.

EDIT: Just read additional posts from the manufacturer. Sales forecasts are very often (almost always) based on less than perfect information. I view this as an annoyance, but certainly not a major problem.

The inaccuracy of a sales forecast is again the manufacturer's problem not the consumer's. Usually a sales forecast is given as a range not as a point estimate, so just purchase the high side of the range. Parts kits can only cost a few dollars to make so why not order 200 instead? They are not going to be obsolete. Also parts kits are small and light, so they can be air-shipped relatively cheaply. Why wait for them to go into a container and wait six weeks for delivery?

I have ordered a few Hog items from time to time. The first was some masks and a SMB from DRIS during a Black Friday sale. I never actually received the SMB because after months of waiting DRIS wanted to close out the order so I took a Zeagle SMB instead. I did get the Edge masks though.

The second items were some HOG Switchbacks on closeout from Divers Supply. They were in stock and arrived quickly.

The last thing I ordered was a Hog wing from Piranha , it took a few weeks to arrive but they were upfront about it. I was a bit upset at Piranha because they advertised a black wing, I sent an email to confirm it was a black wing and I got a red one. However, this was not Hog's fault.

All in all I would classify these delays as annoyances because I did not need any of these items for a dive. If I did then it would be a problem.

---------- Post added April 13th, 2014 at 01:52 AM ----------

Wow, yes, that is something I do realize, I actually own Dive Rite Regs and bought them for the same reasons, the OP and complainer were referencing Hog so was I. Just a note, Dive Rite has eliminated the self-service approach starting with their XT offerings, that actually caused me to pass on the XTs which were more expensive than Hogs. Obviously given a choice of several brands offering self service with essentially the same performance, price could affect the choice for some people.

Sorry, many people don't realize this and credit Hog with starting this when in fact they didn't. I didn't realize Dive Rite has stopped supplying kits for their new regs. The last I read they said they were not making the manual available but would sell kits. Something about receiving warranty claims on regulators that end-users have broken trying to service them. It is disturbing that they did not follow though and make the parts available. I was thinking Zeagle would have stopped selling kits since they were purchased but they still seem to be available, knock on wood.

I do agree that I like Hog's service philosophy. I am also glad that parts for other brands are making it to eBay and some mail order firms at reasonable costs.

There is nothing wrong with mail-orders, I see no difference if I order from DGX and have them ship it for free or if I drive to Pompano and pick it up myself. I used to go to Divers Supply in Jax when I lived in Orlando but it is too far from Miami. Most mail order shops are an LDS to someone, ether they get into the 21st century or face the consequences.
 
Folks, we ran out of kits for a new reg, none in service that would have been at a regular service interval. It was less than a month we anticpated not having them in stock.

The second stage kits we anticipate is less than two weeks oos, I mentioned it only because things happen. Most of our dealers have the kits in stock. Plus..we do have LP seats in stock in qty so nobody is going to not be able to get their second stage serviced. It's actually the only dynamic part in the kit.. the orings get replaced simply because they have been removed to clean the reg and may as well throw new ones in...

Believe it or not the kits need to be made, the orings are never a issue, however HP, LP seats take time to get. They are made with machining and molding processes.


Regarding service...

We were the first brand that encouraged tech divers to get the training to service gear and then set up a means to do so.

Dive Rite was the first brand to not bend over backwards to stop divers from buying parts, however they didn't encourage it. It was actually Dive Gear Express that started that ball of wax when they were still called DiveRite Express, that is why people confuse where that came from. Dive Rite got dragged into it.. :)

Zeagle, they waffled back and forth for ages, there was a poster on SB from Zeagle who was OK with it, I always got the impression the company wasn't.

Salvo- Yes, Barry was OK with people buying kits, he would prefer that to servicing them himself.
 
Sorry, many people don't realize this and credit Hog with starting this when in fact they didn't. I didn't realize Dive Rite has stopped supplying kits for their new regs. The last I read they said they were not making the manual available but would sell kits. Something about receiving warranty claims on regulators that end-users have broken trying to service them. It is disturbing that they did not follow though and make the parts available. I was thinking Zeagle would have stopped selling kits since they were purchased but they still seem to be available, knock on wood.

I would have my doubts about that excuse. If that were really occurring, they could simply deny the warranty claim. I suspect that Dive Rite is reacting to the same problem that HOG has to deal with. Many shops refuse to carry a line of regulators that does not restrict parts sale as it might reduce the shop's service business.

---------- Post added April 13th, 2014 at 11:45 AM ----------

Believe it or not the kits need to be made, the orings are never a issue, however HP, LP seats take time to get. They are made with machining and molding processes.

Have you checked with Trident?
 
I would have my doubts about that excuse. If that were really occurring, they could simply deny the warranty claim. I suspect that Dive Rite is reacting to the same problem that HOG has to deal with. Many shops refuse to carry a line of regulators that does not restrict parts sale as it might reduce the shop's service business.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/dive-rite/441076-xt-regulator-schematic-2.html#post6580930
 
Holy crapola. In what world does every item you bring in for service always have the parts immediately available? Does your local car dealer never have to order parts in or wait on a back order? Even the Maytag repairman has to deal with backordered parts from time to time.

We live in a world of global supply chains. Sometimes delays happen, for any one of a whole host of reasons. A couple of weeks delay (not months) in parts availability is hardly a massive crime, ESPECIALLY for a new product.

EDIT: Just read additional posts from the manufacturer. Sales forecasts are very often (almost always) based on less than perfect information. I view this as an annoyance, but certainly not a major problem.
We are talking about service kit!
When I brought my car for routine service, I had never been told that items like air filter, oil, spark plugs etc were out of stock!
 

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