:huh:
yeah, right
... it's the government that is being deceitful here :doh:... weren't they the ones that told the NoShippys the there wasn't any PCBs or cabling on the ship?
HMAS Adelaide Being Sunk 27th March On Central Coast
- Thread starter tracy_from_oz
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:huh:
yeah, right
... it's the government that is being deceitful here :doh:... weren't they the ones that told the NoShippys the there wasn't any PCBs or cabling on the ship?
bracko
Contributor
it was a case of they did what they had to do to get the stay order issued for the sinking.
now the NSAG has had months to collect a case based on lead paint they can withdraw the complaint and use a [possibly] legitimate reason to have the ship sunk.
if the ship contains a dangerous amount of substance i agree the government should be forced to remove the environment hazard. the government should also carry out a responsible EIS taking into account any tidal movements or other disruptions to the natural ecosystem currently in the area.
I think we're all fairly green concious on this site and i would hate to have something like introduced species dominance and the death of one ecosystem due to an artifical reef.
now the NSAG has had months to collect a case based on lead paint they can withdraw the complaint and use a [possibly] legitimate reason to have the ship sunk.
if the ship contains a dangerous amount of substance i agree the government should be forced to remove the environment hazard. the government should also carry out a responsible EIS taking into account any tidal movements or other disruptions to the natural ecosystem currently in the area.
I think we're all fairly green concious on this site and i would hate to have something like introduced species dominance and the death of one ecosystem due to an artifical reef.
I am pretty sure that any report that claims to shows what the tidal movements or changes that the ship will cause to the surf break are imposable to back up with repeatable data
As for changes in the local environment close to the ship, I think looking at examples of ships already reefed would provide a solid working answer.
The HMCS Yukon here is a similar time frame ship and has been studied for 10 years now as an artificial reef ... I haven't been aware of any negative results
As for changes in the local environment close to the ship, I think looking at examples of ships already reefed would provide a solid working answer.
The HMCS Yukon here is a similar time frame ship and has been studied for 10 years now as an artificial reef ... I haven't been aware of any negative results
OP
tracy_from_oz
Contributor
I agree that if there are harmful things on the ship they should all be removed from the Adelaide for the safety of the environment and people.
However, I also believe that after this is done lets sink her and let her become an artificial reef system to bring back ocean creatures and create a breeding area for those ocean creatures to replenish the area. Lets be honest over fishing has depleted the area substantially.
Why can we not have the best of two worlds? One that helps the ocean where marine life can thrive and one where a diver can go to enjoy these beautiful happenings of diving a big ship and seeing this amazing marine life.
However, I also believe that after this is done lets sink her and let her become an artificial reef system to bring back ocean creatures and create a breeding area for those ocean creatures to replenish the area. Lets be honest over fishing has depleted the area substantially.
Why can we not have the best of two worlds? One that helps the ocean where marine life can thrive and one where a diver can go to enjoy these beautiful happenings of diving a big ship and seeing this amazing marine life.
bracko
Contributor
totally agree, and I've already told my dive shop I'm on the first boat they take up there or the first club trip we go on.
but this isn't the first time something has been done with the "best intentions" and had a net negative result.
cain toad hunting anyone?
but this isn't the first time something has been done with the "best intentions" and had a net negative result.
cain toad hunting anyone?
Yeah I know what you mean but I think there have been enough artificial reefs Like the ones DB mentioned, the Brisbane and many others around the world that show that "artificial reefs" create a positive marine environment.
I certainly think it is better environmental policy to remove the harmful substances and sink the ship than have it end up in one of the "ship graveyards". Environmental issues are sacrificed as are the conditions of the workers for the sake of saving money and profiting from the salvage in many of these
The biggest ones are in countries where environmental issues are a low priority and not enforced.
I certainly think it is better environmental policy to remove the harmful substances and sink the ship than have it end up in one of the "ship graveyards". Environmental issues are sacrificed as are the conditions of the workers for the sake of saving money and profiting from the salvage in many of these
The biggest ones are in countries where environmental issues are a low priority and not enforced.
Video of the Yukon covering the 10 years it's been down
... California Ships to Reefs, Inc. - Home
and notice that we are planning an addition to wreck alley in the form of a cold war era Russian sub ... Soviet-era sub will join HMCS Yukon as a dive reef off Mission Bay - San Diego, California Talk Radio Station - 760 KFMB AM - 760kfmb
... California Ships to Reefs, Inc. - Home
and notice that we are planning an addition to wreck alley in the form of a cold war era Russian sub ... Soviet-era sub will join HMCS Yukon as a dive reef off Mission Bay - San Diego, California Talk Radio Station - 760 KFMB AM - 760kfmb
Bob Fitzgerald : "The test report presented to the AAT hearing today concluded that the lead content in the 23,000 square meters of red paint on the interior of the vessel amounted to 750kg in total, that's just 3% of the 23 tons of red lead that NSAG claimed was on the vessel at the hearing last Tuesday.
Once again the NoShip claims have proven to be wildly incorrect. The tests were conducted on 360 seperate spots throughout the ship that were selected by a random number generator to avoid any bias and to make sure that the sampling process represented an accurate indication.
The cost for this testing amounted to $50,000, which is yet another public expenditure to counter NoShip claims. In my opinion there were no significant other points made in the summing up submissions from the barristers on both sides that came out at the hearing today. So now the tribunal has to consider all of the evidence before it and deliver their verdict, probably in about a weeks time."
Once again the NoShip claims have proven to be wildly incorrect. The tests were conducted on 360 seperate spots throughout the ship that were selected by a random number generator to avoid any bias and to make sure that the sampling process represented an accurate indication.
The cost for this testing amounted to $50,000, which is yet another public expenditure to counter NoShip claims. In my opinion there were no significant other points made in the summing up submissions from the barristers on both sides that came out at the hearing today. So now the tribunal has to consider all of the evidence before it and deliver their verdict, probably in about a weeks time."
But even if it passes all the environmental issues, it still might not be sunk ....
Bob Fitzgerald : "I'll say one more thing about the likely outcome of the AAT hearing. While I’m confident that the tribunal will find no environmental reason not to scuttle the vessel, there is a potential for a “not to scuttle” finding that relates to a point of law. There is the possibility that the AAT determines that the office of the Minister for Environment cannot issue a permit to scuttle the vessel for the specific purpose of creating an artificial reef at this point in the process. I know this sounds convoluted but it is important. It seems to be OK that the Minister can issue a permit to “dump” a vessel at sea providing there are no radioactive materials on board and where “dumping” is not for the purpose creating an artificial reef. In summing up Justice Downes strongly and repeatedly made the point that he had an issue with a particular point of the law where permit process concerned “Dumping” a vessel for the express purpose of creating an artificial reef. Don’t loose sight of the relevance of this point in the possible AAT outcome. Remember that the stay on the Dumping Permit that Justice Downes issued back in March related specifically to the process of the issuing of the dumping permit."
Bob Fitzgerald : "I'll say one more thing about the likely outcome of the AAT hearing. While I’m confident that the tribunal will find no environmental reason not to scuttle the vessel, there is a potential for a “not to scuttle” finding that relates to a point of law. There is the possibility that the AAT determines that the office of the Minister for Environment cannot issue a permit to scuttle the vessel for the specific purpose of creating an artificial reef at this point in the process. I know this sounds convoluted but it is important. It seems to be OK that the Minister can issue a permit to “dump” a vessel at sea providing there are no radioactive materials on board and where “dumping” is not for the purpose creating an artificial reef. In summing up Justice Downes strongly and repeatedly made the point that he had an issue with a particular point of the law where permit process concerned “Dumping” a vessel for the express purpose of creating an artificial reef. Don’t loose sight of the relevance of this point in the possible AAT outcome. Remember that the stay on the Dumping Permit that Justice Downes issued back in March related specifically to the process of the issuing of the dumping permit."
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Bob has been going to the hearings, some interesting aboutface and general mucking aboot by the NoShipys
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