History of Diver Training

[DCBC]

...and you teach future commercial and military divers.

I teach recreational divers who value knowledge and skill-set development more than the 'quick and easy.' Some aspire to technical diving, while others hope to become a diving professional. I also teach other levels of diving including recreational instructor and various specialties. As you have mentioned, in the past I've also instructed military and commercial divers.

Well.. now if we could just get you to practice what you're preaching here then we'd soon be completely free of the POV warrior bitching. I hope you really believe that because I really believe it too.

POV Warrior? I do practice what I preach.

I for one don't have any problem at all about how you say you teach your classes. I'm sure everyone could learn something from it (especially now that you've laid out your course context clearly for us) and I actually do agree with some of the criticisms. But when it gets to the point that all a person does is bitch about other people not doing things like they do, then it gets to be a bit much.

It is not I that has been jumping to conclusions, or bitching about others in this thread (if you care to examine it closely)...

 

[Kingpatzer]

It is not I that has been jumping to conclusions, or bitching about others in this thread (if you care to examine it closely)...

My daughter used to like to annoy her older brothers without doing anything that's actually "wrong" by the letter of the household rules. Eventually her brothers would get mad at her and yell or push her or otherwise get in trouble. It took a few times, but once we caught on we had a very long talk with her about how proper behavior is more than following the letter of the law.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Driving is far more dangerous an activity than diving.

I suspect the driver's ed that Thal and DCBC and others here would advocate would include putting students onto a track and make power turns and extreme breaking maneuvers until they lost control of their vehicles just so they could see their limits. Such a course would un-doubtingly result in superior drivers. But it would also un-doubtingly be a significant barrier to getting drivers' ed in the first place. So we make compromises as to what constitutes sufficient training for new drivers in light of the reality of the capacities of average entry-level drivers to pay for such education in terms of time, money and interest.

The same is true of diver training, like it or not.

Moreover, while I agree with them that learning to push one's limits can be great fun. It is also a rather significant waste of a student's time and money when it comes to activities like diving -- unless the student has a specific interest in diving in environments where such skills have some actual likelihood of being useful. That is not reflective of most students. Driving on an average street is far more dangerous a proposition than diving on the average dive site (with the exception of the danger of pre-existing health conditions impacting the participant).

Diving at recreational levels is not the difficult exercise that some folks here are trying to sell it as.

 

[DCBC]

My daughter used to like to annoy her older brothers without doing anything that's actually "wrong" by the letter of the household rules. Eventually her brothers would get mad at her and yell or push her or otherwise get in trouble. It took a few times, but once we caught on we had a very long talk with her about how proper behavior is more than following the letter of the law.

I hope you taught your sons that in life, lots of things may annoy them. There will be times when people will say things that they may disagree with. It's never an excuse to react negatively, jump to conclusions and insult another.

Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody's power, that is not easy. - Aristotle

 

[Kingpatzer]

I don't train people to dive to look at the pretty fish. I don't try to encourage 60 year old ladies to choose scuba over quilting (although there is nothing the matter with that). I train divers who are serious about moving forward and taking on new challenges like tech diving, diving commercially, or with the military. I teach on a military base. Don't compare your course with mine. They are different beasts.

Yet you seem quite content comparing several courses to yours and bemoaning the fact that they are teaching people to dive to look at pretty fishes as if there is something wrong with that.

 

[TSandM]

I think you guys should let this go.

We ALL know: That DCBC thinks diver training used to be better than it is now, and thinks the way he runs his classes is better than the typical recreational OW class (and it may be -- I don't know. But he thinks it is, which is fine) and that he doesn't like some mainstream agencies.

We've seen a myriad of threads on this topic in the last year. I think we've done this to death and beyond, and we should all give it a rest for a while.

And I think this is the first time in almost five years that I have posted that I think a thread should be simply allowed to die.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I hope you taught your sons that in life, lots of things may annoy them. There will be times when people will say things that they may disagree with. It's never an excuse to react negatively, jump to conclusions and insult another.

You did note that it started out with the boys getting in trouble, right? While there are never excuses for poor behavior, there are mitigating circumstances. For all our want to presume ourselves to be rational agents above animal responses, we are not. We're animals just like any other, and just as if you annoy a dog enough it will likely snap at you, so it is true with people. We'd like to think otherwise. We'd like to think we're above that. But we're wrong.

 

[fire_diver]

I have to agree with the borg queen. WE have all said our peace (many times over), and we are just going in circle here.

Im out of this thread.

DIE THREAD DIE!

 

[DCBC]

...So we make compromises as to what constitutes sufficient training for new drivers in light of the reality of the capacities of average entry-level drivers to pay for such education in terms of time, money and interest.
The same is true of diver training, like it or not.

I agree. However I would think that since the students are the ones that are paying "for such education in terms of time, money and interest," that they are the ones to decide on the type of training they elect to receive.

Moreover, while I agree with them that learning to push one's limits can be great fun. It is also a rather significant waste of a student's time and money when it comes to activities like diving -- unless the student has a specific interest in diving in environments where such skills have some actual likelihood of being useful. That is not reflective of most students.

Agreed, it's largely up to the diving environment and the student's goals. But again what is valuable, or a waste of the student's time and money, is up to the student to decide.

Diving at recreational levels is not the difficult exercise that some folks here are trying to sell it as.

That would depend upon the diving conditions the diver is subjected to now wouldn't it?

 

[DCBC]

Yet you seem quite content comparing several courses to yours and bemoaning the fact that they are teaching people to dive to look at pretty fishes as if there is something wrong with that.

To be clear, there's nothing the matter with this.