"hinged" or OBP fins or Splits...what do you think?

[SubMariner]

This was the case with the review rodales did with force fins a couple of yers ago (also included splits in the review) and the splits one but when the owner of Force Fins found out the the split fin maker who won gave a large kick back to rodales to get the win, as a result he filed a court case againist rodales for false advertising, nad several other charges (i have read the court papers and this case looks very bad for rodales,

Playing Devil's Advocate:

When making your Statement of Claim to file your lawsuit, you can put anything you like in it. But that doesn't make it TRUE.

Afterall, this is the US, land of the frivilous lawsuit. Land of the contingency-fee lawyer who will take a case knowing that there will probably be a settlement regardless of whether or not the suit has merit.

Frankly, all you have done is spread rumours & hearsay. You have not provided any proof.

~SubMariner~

 

[leadweight]

SubMariner once bubbled...


Playing Devil's Advocate:

When making your Statement of Claim to file your lawsuit, you can put anything you like in it. But that doesn't make it TRUE.

Afterall, this is the US, land of the frivilous lawsuit. Land of the contingency-fee lawyer who will take a case knowing that there will probably be a settlement regardless of whether or not the suit has merit.

Frankly, all you have done is spread rumours & hearsay. You have not provided any proof.

~SubMariner~

Ditto

 

[pufferfish]

Ditto but I always love conspiracy theories.

I am not sure if it was on this board but someone actually took the Rodale's issue at the end of the year which has all the 'tester's choices' and tallied them up by manufaturer. They then for the previous twelve months counted the number of ads by the manufacturers and guess what. There is no correlation at all.
In fact there was not one ad from Scubapro in the previous year and yet they had the highest number of tester's choices.

 

[MikeFerrara]

They need to do their tests while following the line course I run for students. I don't know about any of you but I don't usually swim long at a constant speed, direction or even depth on most of my dives. I stop, go, turn, look, move, pivot, backup and so on. I go up and over things and between things. I need control ALWAYS and speed when I need it (On the first kick not after a running start). That's the problem I have with all these tests, at least for me they bare no resemblance to the way I dive and are invalid. If your fins make fine control hard you won't have your best air consumption when trying to get fine control. Something as simple as spnning around to face another diver. With my fins I can do it with a twitch of an ankle. Stop on a dime...no problem.

I have never been convinced that they were fabricating test results but it wouldn't suprise me. However, I do have the impression that they don't know beans about diving. There is a reason that most cave instructors won't allow students to use them. And BTW those are some of the hands down best divers in the world and not by any small margine either. If you haven't ever seen the average cave instructor move in the water you don't know what diving should look like.

 

[pufferfish]

So Mike from your 'testing' what fins do you recommend and what do you use?

 

[leadweight]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
They need to do their tests while following the line course I run for students. I don't know about any of you but I don't usually swim long at a constant speed, direction or even depth on most of my dives. I stop, go, turn, look, move, pivot, backup and so on. I go up and over things and between things. I need control ALWAYS and speed when I need it (On the first kick not after a running start). That's the problem I have with all these tests, at least for me they bare no resemblance to the way I dive and are invalid. If your fins make fine control hard you won't have your best air consumption when trying to get fine control. Something as simple as spnning around to face another diver. With my fins I can do it with a twitch of an ankle. Stop on a dime...no problem.

I have never been convinced that they were fabricating test results but it wouldn't suprise me. However, I do have the impression that they don't know beans about diving. There is a reason that most cave instructors won't allow students to use them. And BTW those are some of the hands down best divers in the world and not by any small margine either. If you haven't ever seen the average cave instructor move in the water you don't know what diving should look like.

Although the testing makes it clear to me that the better split fins produce good sustained speeds with low air consumption, this is more like driving on the freeway. There is more than a garain of truth to what Mike said. Diving is often a lot more like city driving, stop and go.

For a while I used a pair of Tusa Reef Tourer fins. These very flexible paddle fins produce good steady speed with little effort. However, trying hold in place while looking at a lionfish under a ledge was nearly impossible and wasted chunks of air. The fins that I use now, Technisub Ala, are known for their instant response. I know of one underwater photographer who Ebayed a pair of Tusa Expert Zoom fins and went back to his old Blades I fins because the splits did not give him the leverage to hold in place. All that said, some divers report that the Apollo Biofins provide more control than most of the other splits because they are stiffer.

However, I would avoid the OBP fins and the twin jets in colors other than black. These fins are no faster or easier on air than conventional fins and have the control problems of soft fins. The only relief they offer is freedom from leg cramps.

 

[MikeFerrara]

pufferfish once bubbled...
So Mike from your 'testing' what fins do you recommend and what do you use?

Before I answer let me give a little background. When I was first certified I bought force fins for $125 because my instructor said they were the best. I got a dry suit so I needed to get a bigger set of force fins for $125. My wife started diving so I got her a pair for $125. I almost killed myself in those things doing the surface swims for my DM and instructor courses. About that time the bio (split) came on the market. This instructor told me they were the best. I tried them and they were indeed better than the force fins (I thought) so I got a pair for $175. My wife tried them and she liked them better also so she got a pair for $175. We continued to learn more about diving and I found the fins lacking. Have you been doing the math? I started playing around with different fins and found for all around do everything performance it was hard to beat a plain old everyday CHEAP pair of paddle fins. I have several different fins that I use for a veriety of reasons like comfort, control and power under different conditions like going from a wet suit to a dry suit.

What I recommend to divers is that they start simple and inexpensive with a basic conventional fin. I encourage them to learn technique with this basic fin and then once they know what to do with their feet they can switch to whatever they think works best. The difference is by this time they know the difference between good and bad. None who have taken this advice have gone on to decide they need a $175 pair of split or jointed fins. Almost 100% of the divers who come to me with split fins end up switching to a conventional fin. They don't do it because I say so they do it because they want to learn the techniques we try to teach and none have been able to do it in split fins. Keep the gear simple and invest the money and effort in developing technique and then nobody can fool you with gimicks and crutches.

I wouldn't call what I have done testing it's more like expensive trial and error. I have even taken my pile of split fins to the pool to try to find a way to use them effectively in an effort to find a way to teach those who insisted on using them. I was less than seccesssful

I wish I could recommend split fins because I have 3 or 4 pairs I stocked a couple years ago and never sold. I also still have all the bio fins we bought way back when. I did finally find someone who wanted some of the force fins even after I told him what I thought of them.

 

[MikeFerrara]

leadweight once bubbled...

The Apollo Bio fin does well at all three. Furthemore the users of this fin report that they can even use it to swim backwards.

The correct procedure for this is to wear the fins on your hands and flutter. LOL

 

[pufferfish]

MIke, so let me guess you must have a pair of Jetfins somewhere?

 

[MikeFerrara]

pufferfish once bubbled...
MIke, so let me guess you must have a pair of Jetfins somewhere?

Actally, I love my Turtles that I use when wearing my dry suit. However, for wet suit diving the foot pocket on the jets and the IDI jet copies (don't remember what they're called) hurt my feet and I can't use them.