Help Identifying Older Scubapro 2nd Stage Please

[boarderX47]

If that includes parts and labor for a MK5 and a 109 it's very reasonable. Two caveats; one, the tech needs to be familiar with these regs, many are not, and two, there are upgrade parts for the 109 that are likely needed, and that will probably push the cost a bit higher. You could leave the 109 unbalanced, in which case it probably needs a duro poppet and maybe a new lever, or convert it to balanced, in which case it needs the s-wing poppet, balance chamber, and new spring, plus the possibility of the new lever.

More likely that price is labor only. Still not too bad.

Labor "usually" runs in the $25 a stage + parts, so you are likely in the ballpark (but I'm thinking parts will be extra). Make sure the MK-5 is the "heavy yoke" if you are using 3000 psi tanks...

Thanks guys, I bought if off a forum member here and he said it had been serviced over a year ago so I am assuming it has some newer parts. He did say the 1st stage needed to be serviced though. I guess I'll open up the second stage when I get it and post some pics to see what I am dealing with. Also I did see on the pictures that is says "3000 PSI" on the top if the yoke which should mean it is the "newest" yoke and should be fine with 3000 psi.

 

[ReneB]

Finally--take apart pics

Well, it was a day or so later than I had hoped, but I was finally able to spend a bit of time taking the 2nd stage apart and talking pictures.

Could folks please tell me if this one needs to be upgraded? I am not sure, but I thought I had gleaned from an earlier post or PM that the grey colored poppet is the old style.

thanks!



Front - Partially Assembled




Inside




Lever detail





Poppets (look original, correct?)




Diaphragm



Exhaust port - some slight bending to edge, but it looks ok to me ... your thoughts, please?

 

[Six2Life]

That's one of those cool old grey poppets. If you want to unload it after upgrading, I'd happily buy it.

 

[Zung]

Yes, you can DIY seats for those, and it'll cost you a nickel a piece.
Now, before you do anything you'll regret, take a deep breath and read the posts here and here.

Oh, and the formal answer to your Q is: you already have a balanced reg., no upgrade required if you stick to your DIY vow. If you have to take it to a tech (bad idea, bad karma), remove the poppet first and send it to someone in need.

 

[ReneB]

Thanks, Zung .... illuminate me, what makes this a balanced reg?

So all I need is the annual repair/maintenance kit? Or do I need these:


G250 poppet 11.250.015
G250 balance chamber 11.150.102
G250 spring 01.020.216


and updated spring lever too




thanks

 

[redacted]

That poppet with the hollow metal stem allows gas to flow into the black plastic balance chamber which provides an upstream force (sometimes called an air spring) to help close the seat on the knife edge orifice. That mean it uses a lighter metal spring to close the poppet. That means the work of breathing is less effected by any changes in the pressure of the gas supplied to the 2nds stage which usually results in somewhat improved performance. Truth is, the effects are relatively small and may be somewhat hard to notice when you are diving. Under ideal conditions, a 109 will breath as well as a 156. But over time as parts wear and pressures change, the balanced 156 will have a greater performance advantage.

 

[Fishpie]

Yes, its already balanced.
The little black tube is the balance chamber, you have the right spring.
If you are into some DIY you can make some replaceable seats for the (slightly rare) grey poppet.........although it might be easier to just get a new white s wing poppet that will allow you use the current service kits. Although all that usually will need replacing is the poppet sealing rivet and maybe the little balance chamber o rings every second or third service.

 

[halocline]

Thanks, Zung .... illuminate me, what makes this a balanced reg?

So all I need is the annual repair/maintenance kit? Or do I need these:


G250 poppet 11.250.015
G250 balance chamber 11.150.102
G250 spring 01.020.216


and updated spring lever too




thanks

You might not need any of those parts, just the DIY seat to fit your poppet and a replacement o-ring for the balance chamber end of the poppet stem. Then you need an o-ring for the orifice and one for the adjustment knob.

The lever issue is a little more complicated; you won't know if you need a new one until you get the reg working. Then it requires some judgement; you have to be able to tell whether it's sitting at the correct height under pressure and you have to know if the cracking effort is acceptable. It's easier than it sounds. In my experience the main thing that happens when there's a lever/poppet conflict is that you have to tighten the orifice way down to keep the reg from free-flowing, usually only with the diaphragm in place, and that makes cracking effort really high. If it's working well with the current lever/poppet combination, that's a good reason to re-use this poppet instead of replacing.

I think that almost all of mine now have s-wing poppets and new (curved feet) levers. But I'm pretty picky about performance and don't mind wasting-oops I mean wisely spending- an additional $20 or so to get an extra tiny bit of performance. It's especially crucial to me that all my converted 109s perform exceptionally while they sit in my closet....

I almost always dive with converted pilots and D300s. But that's going to change, I'm pretty sure I'm going to use the balanced/adjustable and 109 for a while. Although I have been considering just going with my PRAM for all recreational diving for a season or two.

Oh yeah, one other comment that's actually useful....it looks like you're going to have a wet breather on your hands unless you very carefully clean the area around the exhaust valve. I'd remove the valve (replace it, they're cheap) and if there's corrosion around the seating surface, get out some emery cloth and touch it up. Sure you'll be removing chrome, BFD. You need a nice flat surface for that exhaust valve to seal.

 

[Zung]

--- So all I need is the annual repair/maintenance kit? Or do I need these:


G250 poppet 11.250.015
G250 balance chamber 11.150.102
G250 spring 01.020.216
...

None of the above.

If you want to DIY all the way, all you need is to read my 1st link all the way to the end of the thread, then you can punch your own modified awap seat.

Like Fishpie said, the other parts last a long time, time enough for you to source the little 2.5mm x 1mm O-rings for the stem of the poppet.

Edit

halo beats me to it.
Regarding the lever, the one you have should be OK, unless you accidentally bent it, or if you're after the last bit of performance like halo. If you want parts, watch bigfootdaisy's posts on eBay: her price is reasonable, and she's the co-editor of "Regulator Savvy".

 

[redacted]

Regulator bigamy. It is not just enjoyable - it is legal.