Gue Vs Tdi

[SDAnderson]

BTW, IANTD does not have the limits of the cert written on the card. All it tells you is the level. I would be willing to bet that TDI is no different?

TDI covers the use of 100% during the entry level trimix course (at least mine did, both in theory and in practice) and my cards reflect that:

TDI Entry Level Trimix Diver: "Qualified in trimix diving (helium based), with a 18% mixture or greater, use of nitrox/oxygen for deco/stage gases, to max depth of 200 fsw/60msw

TDI Advanced Trimix Diver: "Qualified in trimix diving (helium based) and use of nitrox/oxygen for deco/stage gases, to max depth of 330 fsw/ 100msw​

 

[nova]

What GUE's tech1 and TDI's deco procedures/advanced nitrox 100% have in common is that they teach the physics of decompression. by switching to 50% at 70 feet you start to breath a gas that has a 1.6 po2. level (same as O2 at 20 feet). By breathing 50% at 70 feet your starting to strip N2 from the body at 3ata. this helps remove micro bubbles of N2 before there is a problem.

the short end, both of these courses teach you how to get out of the water faster by switching gasses

 

[JeffG]

My card states deco of up to 100%, and my class delved into the advantages and disadvantages of 50% vs 100% depending on the situation/profile.

If you're reading something regarding changes since I took it two years ago, then so be it, but those aren't the guidelines I learned under nor dive by.

My Mistake. I read the standards for the class and thought they were the limits and it never occured to me to ask the Tech 1 guys I know for the limits (Most of them have been doing > Tech1 diving and they took the course for other reasons)....ergo I just ***** U MEd...Its not the first time I was wrong.. LOL

 

[diverbrian]

TDI covers the use of 100% during the entry level trimix course (at least mine did, both in theory and in practice) and my cards reflect that:

TDI Entry Level Trimix Diver: "Qualified in trimix diving (helium based), with a 18% mixture or greater, use of nitrox/oxygen for deco/stage gases, to max depth of 200 fsw/60msw


TDI Advanced Trimix Diver: "Qualified in trimix diving (helium based) and use of nitrox/oxygen for deco/stage gases, to max depth of 330 fsw/ 100msw
​

My mistake. I know that all my C-cards that I have state what the level is (ie. DiveCon, Adv. Nitrox, Normoxic Trimix), but not the limits of the card.

My bad!

 

[wb416]

My Mistake. I read the standards for the class and thought they were the limits and it never occured to me to ask the Tech 1 guys I know for the limits (Most of them have been doing > Tech1 diving and they took the course for other reasons)....ergo I just ***** U MEd...Its not the first time I was wrong.. LOL

No harm... no foul!

...as I said... standards may have changed... but I haven't gotten around to comparing them to the pdf I saved from a couple of years ago.

...I think the important point to make about tech 1 (as I took it) is that it's a single deco bottle cert (preferably AL40) to limit the potential CF you can get yourself into as you're gaining experience. Using only one deco bottle on the dive should not be confused with having various gas choices available (back gas or deco gas) to be used as appropriate for a particular dive.

 

[nova]

No harm... no foul!

...as I said... standards may have changed... but I haven't gotten around to comparing them to the pdf I saved from a couple of years ago.

...I think the important point to make about tech 1 (as I took it) is that it's a single deco bottle cert (preferably AL40) to limit the potential CF you can get yourself into as you're gaining experience. Using only one deco bottle on the dive should not be confused with having various gas choices available (back gas or deco gas) to be used as appropriate for a particular dive.

this brings up a very good point. If you only bring one deco gas ,what gas would it be? I know the cavers like to deco on O2, but when I'm in the ocean I like to have 50/50, just in case there is something that pushes you off deco (weather, sharks, ect) that way I at least get the benifit of some high po2 before I hit the surface. My TDI instructor was big on 100%, how does GUE treat this subject , and why ?

 

[wb416]

this brings up a very good point. If you only bring one deco gas ,what gas would it be? I know the cavers like to deco on O2, but when I'm in the ocean I like to have 50/50, just in case there is something that pushes you off deco (weather, sharks, ect) that way I at least get the benifit of some high po2 before I hit the surface. My TDI instructor was big on 100%, how does GUE treat this subject , and why ?

I'll try an oversimplified synopsis:

EAN50 has merits on deep dives because in general terms it saves backgas. How? It provides approximately a 2:1 advantage in deco time, saving 2x CuFt in backgas, not to mention opening the Oxygen Window at a lower depth. Also, by starting deco early, if in an ABSOLUTELY last ditch reason (surface conditions; emergency of some sort), you would have less deco obligation if you were unable to complete deco from 20ft up.... read that as "more survivable, not as recommended practice" There are obviously more variables/advantages for 50%, but that's part of it.

02 can be great in caves, especially the typical tourist caves in Florida or Mexico. The optimum "deco spots" near the entrance are shallow, so 02 can "work the 02 window" here. Whereas, even in a deeper cave, you might have an extended exit swim when the 70ft depth is reached, and you don't want to be doing "deco gas" while "working" to get out of the cave. Cave profile would help dictate the gas selection though. I've not done GUE Cave, but have heard my buddies talk some about their experience that I recall coincided with my Tech 1 discussions of O2.

Again... very oversimplified from my GUE class experience... but some overview reasons that an instructor could expound upon in class with you.

bob

 

[true]

Hmmm. Interesting discussion. Here's my perspective... Simply look at the mission statements for the two organizations and decide which is right for you. TDI's stated goal is to "bring technical applications of the sport to a wider audience." The number of instructors certified to teach TDI certainly backs up the goal: "We have offices worldwide and over 10,000 instructors teaching our programs."

GUE has taken pretty much the opposite approach. As far as I can remember, everyone involved in GUE's formation came out of the academic diving community; one of the primary goals in founding a certifying agency was to return a sort of focus and discipline to dive training that had been vanishing in an era of weekend-wonder certs. It wasn't to bring technical diving to a wider audience, but rather a more focused approach to a narrower audience. GUE wants to take the highly motivated diver and provide them with a very focused application of skills. The instructor corp ranks in the, er, dozen. It's often hard work to find an instructor or class in your part of the world, and to pass the course often creates a very strong sense of accomplishment. Perhaps that's why some GUE trained divers can be vocal about the experience.

Obvously, there's nothing to keep an individual TDI instructor from sharing the same goals and teaching their class to the same expectations. The difference is that TDI has 10000 instructors-- without careful selection on the student's account, I'm guessing that you pay your money and take your chances. TDI wants to be for everyone, GUE (in a certain sense) would rather have the few students who self-select themselves for a different kind of training. The organization isn't out to convert anyone. Personally, I try not to think of the two approaches as better or worse, but just different. There's certainly a place for both.

best,

anthony
true@gue

 

[Kevrumbo]

Hmmm. Interesting discussion. Here's my perspective... Simply look at the mission statements for the two organizations and decide which is right for you. TDI's stated goal is to "bring technical applications of the sport to a wider audience." The number of instructors certified to teach TDI certainly backs up the goal: "We have offices worldwide and over 10,000 instructors teaching our programs."

GUE has taken pretty much the opposite approach. As far as I can remember, everyone involved in GUE's formation came out of the academic diving community; one of the primary goals in founding a certifying agency was to return a sort of focus and discipline to dive training that had been vanishing in an era of weekend-wonder certs. It wasn't to bring technical diving to a wider audience, but rather a more focused approach to a narrower audience. GUE wants to take the highly motivated diver and provide them with a very focused application of skills. The instructor corp ranks in the, er, dozen. It's often hard work to find an instructor or class in your part of the world, and to pass the course often creates a very strong sense of accomplishment. Perhaps that's why some GUE trained divers can be vocal about the experience.

Obvously, there's nothing to keep an individual TDI instructor from sharing the same goals and teaching their class to the same expectations. The difference is that TDI has 10000 instructors-- without careful selection on the student's account, I'm guessing that you pay your money and take your chances. TDI wants to be for everyone, GUE (in a certain sense) would rather have the few students who self-select themselves for a different kind of training. The organization isn't out to convert anyone. Personally, I try not to think of the two approaches as better or worse, but just different. There's certainly a place for both.

best,

anthony
true@gue

Very well stated. . .
Just a passing comment/question, wondering how all this will apply to the forthcoming GUE Recreational Diving Course . . .
Will GUE split into two divisions a la TDI/SDI?
(Good & Safe Diving All --My Clock is countin' down & I'm outta here! )

 

[nova]

I'll try an oversimplified synopsis:

EAN50 has merits on deep dives because in general terms it saves backgas. How? It provides approximately a 2:1 advantage in deco time, saving 2x CuFt in backgas, not to mention opening the Oxygen Window at a lower depth. Also, by starting deco early, if in an ABSOLUTELY last ditch reason (surface conditions; emergency of some sort), you would have less deco obligation if you were unable to complete deco from 20ft up.... read that as "more survivable, not as recommended practice" There are obviously more variables/advantages for 50%, but that's part of it.

02 can be great in caves, especially the typical tourist caves in Florida or Mexico. The optimum "deco spots" near the entrance are shallow, so 02 can "work the 02 window" here. Whereas, even in a deeper cave, you might have an extended exit swim when the 70ft depth is reached, and you don't want to be doing "deco gas" while "working" to get out of the cave. Cave profile would help dictate the gas selection though. I've not done GUE Cave, but have heard my buddies talk some about their experience that I recall coincided with my Tech 1 discussions of O2.

Again... very oversimplified from my GUE class experience... but some overview reasons that an instructor could expound upon in class with you.

bob

I've always thought of the oxygen window as a theary. How does this window follow Dalton's law (laws of partial pressure)? Beacuse it seems odd that the human body, saturated with N2, can change the physics of Daltons law , by changeing to 100% O2, for an oxygen window and not bend the diver. I.E A N2 saturated diver changes gas to 100% O2 , this releaves the N2 partial pressure and can bend a diver at 20 feet. Just a thought?