GUE/DIR Non Smoker..?

[ScubaFeenD]

I have friends that do stuff I wouldn't approve of.. but there still my friends..

I dont always agree with my friends on stuff, but my dive buddies are more than friends to me.

friends are friends,
pals are pals,
but buddies share air

 

[ucfdiver]

I think you are all being a bit narrow minded, saying you wouldn't dive with someone, or associate yourselves with someone because they smoke.. its there choice.. for instance, I have friends that do stuff I wouldn't approve of.. but there still my friends..

Just curious, have you ever been 2 hours away from being able to surface?

I'm sure you have, or you wouldn't be making such a statement, but figured I would ask.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I just thought it was odd that an agency would say you can't dive because you smoke.. but yes you are right, it is there choice..

They aren't saying you can't dive because you smoke ... they're saying they won't train you because you smoke.

What you're apparently missing is that the model of diving that GUE represents isn't just about taking a class and learning a specific set of skills. It's about an emphasis on fitness and lifestyle that enhances your ability to mitigate the risks of diving.

It's an "all or nothing" approach ... which is why, although I have taken a couple of GUE classes and attended a handful of GUE workshops, I decided not to pursue further GUE training. I have choices I've made that are incompatible with their approach to diving. Because I want them to respect my choices, I accept that I have to respect theirs.

It's really that simple.

I think you are all being a bit narrow minded, saying you wouldn't dive with someone, or associate yourselves with someone because they smoke..

Not at all. It's a simple matter of health and risk-mitigation. I'm an instructor. At times I have students who smoke. I ask them not to smoke during class ... other than that, it's their choice. Outside of class, it's mine to decide who I'll dive with. I base that decision on a lot of different criteria. Smoking is one of them ... but we all have a criteria upon which we base who we're comfortable with underwater ... or we should. Don't dive with anyone who makes you uncomfortable ... whatever the reason.

its there choice.. for instance, I have friends that do stuff I wouldn't approve of.. but there still my friends..

I have several friends who smoke. I still won't dive with them.

I am 19 years old.

Then you should give up the addiction while you still can ... because later in life, when it starts to affect your health and lifestyle, it'll be a lot harder to do.

I'm sure there are a few people over 40 doing GUE or whatever.. SO there chances are alot higher than mine anyway..

... maybe, but as someone who's pushing 60, I've made lifestyle changes that'll reduce my risks. Saying you know what the risks are and don't care is a serious indication that you're not someone I'd feel comfortable diving with, whether those risks involved smoking or something else.

I've seen some decent reasons, but it does make me wonder about some people when they think just because I smoke means I don't care about safety.. and won't be a good buddy because I'm thinking about my next "fix" because its not like that at all

Oh, I believe that someone who smokes can be a good diver, and a good buddy ... that still wouldn't necessarily make them someone I'd want to dive with ... and for sure it wouldn't make them compatible with the goals of the GUE training program.

There are plenty of other options for excellent training available to the smoking diver ... it just amazes me when I see someone complaining because the organization won't change their rules to accommodate your lifestyle choices ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jax]

I don't smoke but all points are very true. The stinking one I would have argued a bit until I quit smoking 2.5 years ago......now I definitely agree.

me too. I smoked for years. smokers stink but dont realize it until they are non-smokers

Congratulations, both of you! :cheerleader:


As for Mr "I smoke but I'm fit", I raise the :bs: flag!!!

I used to smoke, and I have many accolades for my level of physical fitness in the Army. I routinely did better than an entire Brigade or Division in competitions.

You think all that mattered? I quit 25 YEARS before an MRI on my spine. The doctor, with no historical knowledge of my smoking, looked at me and said incredulously, "You smoke???" He could see, and pointed out to me, the deposits in my major artery that feeds the femoral arteries. (sp?)

So, if you think that fitness **** is countering your smoking,

 

[Cave Diver]

Sorry if this thread has been created before..
I admit I didn't search

I just wondered why it was there..?

Since I'm guessing you didn't read the links I provided to previous threads, below are some excerpts that might help you understand.

In a nutshell, GUE fundamentals is a stepping stone to more advanced diving, most of which is going to entail decompression. Smoking has detrimental effects on the decompression process, so why would they want to start training someone who has an increased risk?

You have the choice to smoke. They have the choice not to train you.

Just not much in the diving literature but:

Dembert, Beck, Jekel, and Mooney. Relations of smoking and diving experience to pulmonary function among U.S. Navy divers. Undersea Biomed Res. 1984 Sep;11(3):299-304.
RRR ID: 2980

Buch, Dovenbarger, Uguccioni, EI-Moalem, and Moon. EFFECT OF CIGARETTE SMOKING ON THE SEVERITY OF DECOMPRESSION ILLNESS (DCI) SYMPTOMS. 2000 UHMS Meeting Abstract.
RRR ID: 6539

Molvaer and Lehmann. THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN SMOKING AND HEARING IMPAIRMENT IN COMMERCIAL DIVERS. 1984 UHMS Meeting Abstract.
RRR ID: 5349

Edmonds C and Quick D. 1969. Respiratory function in oxygen breathing divers I. Royal Australian Navy, School of Underwater Medicine. Project 1-69
RRR ID: 4956

Smoking inhibits the lungs ability of exchanging gas efficiently (metabolizing oxygen and releasing carbon dioxide and nitrogen), therefore smoking increases your chances of carbon dioxide retention and DCS.

I don't have any other manuals in electronic format, so I'll just copy the GUE one.

8.9.4 Smoking
The wide range of negative impacts on individual health and vitality should be encouragement enough
to avoid smoking, yet nicotine addiction remains. With approximately 500 chemicals and a host of
negative symptoms present, giving up smoking could be the best choice any individual could make. This
should be obvious from the fact that approximately 420,000 people die each year in smoking-related
deaths, and 300,000 cases of second-hand smoke-related illnesses are reported.
With respect to a number of factors, smokers increase their risk of ascent-related pulmonary barotrauma
such as AGE. First, nicotine increases blood pressure, one’s heart rate and coronary vasoconstriction.
Second, smoking introduces tar and nicotine, which cause increased bronchospasm, depressed cilial
activity, and increased mucus production. These factors may lead to intrapulmonary air trapping and
increased pulmonary infection.
Carboxyhaemoglonin levels in smokers range from 5% to 9%, with significant psychomotor effects
being reported from exposure to this level of carbon monoxide (Diving and Subaquatic Medicine,
1992). Furthermore, with smoking, one’s general fitness capacity declines. Increased heart rate, and
decreased stroke volume (the opposite effect of aerobic training), is commonplace. Reduced blood
volume also results from prolonged smoking, which undermines the hydration attempts of responsible
divers. Lastly, increased congestion from smoking is also likely to predispose individuals to sinus and
middle ear barotrauma.
Approximately 15% of a smoker’s hemoglobin is bound to carbon monoxide, thereby reducing
circulatory efficiency. When called upon to transport required oxygen to tissues and to remove carbon
dioxide, bound hemoglobin are helpless to assist, reducing oxygenation and increasing CO2 levels. In
addition to its potential for increasing DCI risk, smoking place the diver in serious peril by limiting
oxygen intake precisely when it is needed most. Furthermore, there are many indications that CO2 plays
a prominent role in a host of physiological problems, and is likely a key component in episodes of
oxygen toxicity. In general, there are likely few things that rank as highly for general physical
degradation as does smoking.

Source- "Getting Clear on the Basics- Fundamentals of Tech Diving"

 

[Pacific-Explorers]

I used to smoke.... but was given a choice by my tec instructor:headscratch:
He said he didnt have a problem with smoking (he had no problems with smokers at all) but as for smoking and tec diving it is plain and simple physiology. Doing a 300+ foot deco dive with elevated CO2 and residual CO in your system at those partial pressures can possibly kill you. So he said it was my choice, smoke and recreational dive, or quit smoking and come to class.
I quit :cool2:
(not really a GUE issue just physics/physiology of inert gases under preasure in the body)
Do I feel any different now I quit: Nope - Although in my head I know I'm much better off and additionally my SAC rate has dropped slightly

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

That I would say is justified. The brain does not shut down for want of a cigarette as some are trying to imply.

Hmm, then why is it so hard for smokers to quit?

I agree smokers smell disgusting, higher risk of DCS due to poor lung function, thinking about the next fix etc. Not going to dive with a smoker either.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Quitting for life and going 4 hours without a cigarette are beyind very different things. They are not even close to being the same thing. I spent 28 hours on a flight and in airports going from Toronto to Hong Kong many years ago and had no problem and at that time I was a pack a day smoker. Just because you say the brain shuts down all rational thought for want of a cigarrette does not make it true.

Hmm, then why is it so hard for smokers to quit?

I agree smokers smell disgusting, higher risk of DCS due to poor lung function, thinking about the next fix etc. Not going to dive with a smoker either.

 

[LiteHedded]

thinking about the next fix is a stupid argument. I'm with scubasteve.

the rest of them are valid.

 

[ScubaSteve]

the rest of them are valid.

And I am fully on board with everybody's right to accept or reject any person as a dive buddy.....and for any certifying agency to mandate that they will not accept smokers......we all have a choice to make. If a person does not agree with an agency's policies then they are better off, IMO, to vote with their wallet and steer very clear. That'll show them .