Going to college to pursue a career in dive medicine research-any advice?

[kaylee_ann]

Ha! As I suspected. Hello from a solid INTP.

That’s what you thought it’d be? Out of curiosity- why?
I always thought I was an introvert

 

[lowviz]

That’s what you thought it’d be? Out of curiosity- why?
I always thought I was an introvert

Your basic need to know everything about everything and your ability to converse politely. Never lose that.

 

[kaylee_ann]

Your basic need to know everything about everything and your ability to converse politely. Never lose that.

Thank youI won’t

 

[lowviz]

@drrich2, I'm out of my field so I'd appreciate it if you would pick up the slack here (post #39) and help this diver get her confidence in herself.

 

[drrich2]

Hi. Since I was mentioned, and medical school, a few thoughts that might feed decision-making a bit.

1.) I'm a retired psychiatrist who attended a small state college for undergrad. 'Pre-med.' wasn't a major (which is good; getting a degree in pre-med. then not becoming a physician would sound like failure); the typical route was biology major/chemistry minor, and to have a good shot at medical school, my advisor recommended at least a 3.5 overall GPA (and the med. school application process broke it down, looking at overall and math/sciences, so no grade padding!).

2.) Medical school weeds people at the door. It's really competitive to get into, but if you get in, odds of graduation with an M.D. are very high. That's different from many Ph.D. programs, from what I'm told.

3.) My graduating class in the state medical school had an average debt of 60 something grand back in '92. IIRC, in the U.S. the average debt load walking out of medical school is over 200 grand these days.

4.) You then spend 3-5 years or so in residency training (that's what determines whether you're a family practice doc., psychiatrist, general surgeon, neurologist, etc...). Some go on to do fellowships, which lets them sub specialize (e.g.: endocrinologist). In the residency years, you make really modest money, especially compared to the hours.

5.) So roundabout age 30 or so, you finally start making 'real' money, after residency.

That's a lot to go through if you aren't driven to practice clinical medicine (e.g.: seeing patients). We had a few to several people in my medical school class try the M.D./Ph.D. plan; I don't think any finished it. It would've added 2 years to their training - with interest piling up on debt.

---

Okay, moving past all that. A few things to think about as you consider a career.

1.) Where do you want to live? If you are in a niche job, you may be 'stuck' at a large university setting. Fine if you like urban or maybe suburban living, perhaps more difficult if you dream of country living and owning a horse.

2.) Be mindful eventually a spouse and the wants/needs of children may become a factor in your life planning.

3.) Academics often didn't pay well. I considered pursuing a natural sciences Ph.D. and aiming to teach in college like my undergrad. teachers...till I found out what they made. I see articles about university teachers leaving their positions; you might want to read up on job satisfaction amongst academics these days.

4.) Some academic Ph.D. jobs are very competitive, and even if you land one, it may be where it's expected you'll seek tenure. The way tenure was explained to me decades ago, it's a 5-year thing, but really, you research and try to get published and win people over for 4-years, don't have a lot of time to make a big difference the 5th year, and if you don't get tenure, you likely relocate to another university to start the process over.

Again, I'm not a Ph.D., never went to grad. school and I'm going by what somebody told me decades ago, so maybe the reality is a lot different now. Otherwise, that kind of long-term hard work/dedication/commitment for such uncertainty and modest income...wow.

---

I'm not knocking your career ambition, and it's good to have ambition and goals. I'm suggesting learn all you can about the course and options (which I tried to help you with), and keep an open mind going forward. John Lennon once said life is what happens while you're making other plans, and there's a long stretch of life involved in the pursuit of goals like yours.

Whether in your 30's you land in the career you presently envision, or divert your course to pursue something else, you can turn up somewhere really good. Many of us encounter some detours along the way.

 

[Akimbo]

Whether in your 30's you land in the career you presently envision, or divert your course to pursue something else, you can turn up somewhere really good. Many of us encounter some detours along the way.

Those detours are opportunities that can be taken advantage of.

“ In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind. ”

― Louis Pasteur

However, this variant is also true:

“ Chance favors the prepared mind, and opportunity favors the bold. ”

― unknown

 

[kaylee_ann]

Hi. Since I was mentioned, and medical school, a few thoughts that might feed decision-making a bit.

1.) I'm a retired psychiatrist who attended a small state college for undergrad. 'Pre-med.' wasn't a major (which is good; getting a degree in pre-med. then not becoming a physician would sound like failure); the typical route was biology major/chemistry minor, and to have a good shot at medical school, my advisor recommended at least a 3.5 overall GPA (and the med. school application process broke it down, looking at overall and math/sciences, so no grade padding!).

2.) Medical school weeds people at the door. It's really competitive to get into, but if you get in, odds of graduation with an M.D. are very high. That's different from many Ph.D. programs, from what I'm told.

3.) My graduating class in the state medical school had an average debt of 60 something grand back in '92. IIRC, in the U.S. the average debt load walking out of medical school is over 200 grand these days.

4.) You then spend 3-5 years or so in residency training (that's what determines whether you're a family practice doc., psychiatrist, general surgeon, neurologist, etc...). Some go on to do fellowships, which lets them sub specialize (e.g.: endocrinologist). In the residency years, you make really modest money, especially compared to the hours.

5.) So roundabout age 30 or so, you finally start making 'real' money, after residency.

That's a lot to go through if you aren't driven to practice clinical medicine (e.g.: seeing patients). We had a few to several people in my medical school class try the M.D./Ph.D. plan; I don't think any finished it. It would've added 2 years to their training - with interest piling up on debt.

---

Okay, moving past all that. A few things to think about as you consider a career.

1.) Where do you want to live? If you are in a niche job, you may be 'stuck' at a large university setting. Fine if you like urban or maybe suburban living, perhaps more difficult if you dream of country living and owning a horse.

2.) Be mindful eventually a spouse and the wants/needs of children may become a factor in your life planning.

3.) Academics often didn't pay well. I considered pursuing a natural sciences Ph.D. and aiming to teach in college like my undergrad. teachers...till I found out what they made. I see articles about university teachers leaving their positions; you might want to read up on job satisfaction amongst academics these days.

4.) Some academic Ph.D. jobs are very competitive, and even if you land one, it may be where it's expected you'll seek tenure. The way tenure was explained to me decades ago, it's a 5-year thing, but really, you research and try to get published and win people over for 4-years, don't have a lot of time to make a big difference the 5th year, and if you don't get tenure, you likely relocate to another university to start the process over.

Again, I'm not a Ph.D., never went to grad. school and I'm going by what somebody told me decades ago, so maybe the reality is a lot different now. Otherwise, that kind of long-term hard work/dedication/commitment for such uncertainty and modest income...wow.

---

I'm not knocking your career ambition, and it's good to have ambition and goals. I'm suggesting learn all you can about the course and options (which I tried to help you with), and keep an open mind going forward. John Lennon once said life is what happens while you're making other plans, and there's a long stretch of life involved in the pursuit of goals like yours.

Whether in your 30's you land in the career you presently envision, or divert your course to pursue something else, you can turn up somewhere really good. Many of us encounter some detours along the way.

what I'm most nervous about is finding jobs (eta- beyond that, being able to understand decompression/dive medicine enough to actually make an impact). pay, oh well, I can live somewhere less expensive. I don't live a particularly expensive lifestyle. FYI, I'm a city person. seems like most dive medicine research is in Durham, NC or Philadelphia, which doesn't bother me- both are nice
oh and for my undergrad I decided to major in cellular/molecular bio and biotechnology.
I'll talk to some people involved in this field of research to find more specifics on the jobs and all that. thanks

 

[The Chairman]

Good luck!

 

[kaylee_ann]

Good luck!

Thank you

 

[Rob9876]

pay, oh well, I can live somewhere less expensive. I don't live a particularly expensive lifestyle. FYI, I'm a city person. seems like most dive medicine research is in Durham, NC or Philadelphia, which doesn't bother me- both are nice

Let me respectfully suggest that a lot of people go into college/grad school with this attitude and this often changes after years living a spartan student's existence, then getting out and having huge loan payments that are often more than a nice house mortgage, plus spouse and kid considerations. A lot of people feel driven to move toward higher pay in order to be able to pay their loans and still have house in a decent school district. Of course, this changes over time and eventually you'll be taking up 2 parking spots with your Porsche.

I've not lived in Durham, though NC overall seems to be booming and I'm sure prices are going up. I did live in the suburbs of Philadelphia for 8 years and that is not a cheap place to live (at least not where the schools are good).