Ginnie 3-18-2012

[openmindOW]

DandyDon, thank you for posting the article.

So, the diver was alone and was OW certified. Can anyone provide any information about his training, such as agency, when he took his class, etc.?

 

[openmindOW]

Once again, we have to ask, what do you do when you see open water divers in over their head (no pun intended)? I’ve convinced plenty to leave lights in the car, . . .

Some OW divers just don't know how dangerous it can be. Many OW divers will respond to a warning given a respectable manner.

I think that OW Instructors have a duty to emphasize to OW students that they msut never enter an overhead environment.

 

[Doppler]

On and off for the past 20 years I have been cave diving at Ginnie. The system they have to check cert levels even with regulars and to stream divers away from going into the overhead when they have no training or gear is about as thorough as it can be. However, some dolts will continue to break the rules.

I wonder if an up-to-date listing at the check-in counter showing OW divers/instructors who have perished in the caves would help to reinforce the guidelines/rules. Certainly there would be calpability for instructors who fail to warn students about the risk of "just poking your head into the cave" but not sure how to enforce that... I have witnessed AOW students being lead around the back of Blue Grotto, and that nonsense happens everyday without being reported.

We are left with a feeling of impotence following these deaths... what a weekend!

 

[ucfdiver]

On and off for the past 20 years I have been cave diving at Ginnie. The system they have to check cert levels even with regulars and to stream divers away from going into the overhead when they have no training or gear is about as thorough as it can be. However, some dolts will continue to break the rules.

I wonder if an up-to-date listing at the check-in counter showing OW divers/instructors who have perished in the caves would help to reinforce the guidelines/rules. Certainly there would be calpability for instructors who fail to warn students about the risk of "just poking your head into the cave" but not sure how to enforce that... I have witnessed AOW students being lead around the back of Blue Grotto, and that nonsense happens everyday without being reported.

We are left with a feeling of impotence following these deaths... what a weekend!

Why just OW divers? Cave divers seem to be better at dying there than OW divers do...

 

[mathauck0814]

Why just OW divers? Cave divers seem to be better at dying there than OW divers do...

Yes, but cave divers are QUALIFIED to die in there... Duh.

 

[Doppler]

Why just OW divers? Cave divers seem to be better at dying there than OW divers do...

True but if we begin a revamped education campaign, let's start at the bottom rung and work up. Better, IMO, to start at a level that everyone can identify with. At least by emphasising the merits of proper gear and training to new divers or openwater divers, we may have a chance to modify behavior. As for the folks who have a bit of training and a little experience and then set off to find fame and fortune, that requires a whole different strategy.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

You don't think this person noticed the sign at the cave entrance?

I doubt that OW divers are unaware of the dangers ... I suspect that most who go into caves simply choose to ignore them. Additional training won't change their minds ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[JamesK]

Someone questioned my comment earlier about someone "wandering in to the catacombs". I am sorry I did not quote it or remember it. Internet is very slow here, especially this board. Took me 30 minutes just to view the new pages.

Anyway, I still stand behind that comment. I don't think anyone "wanders" in to the catacombs. I have dove them before and love them. The person made the decision to dive in to the cavern zone. The person made a decision to dive in to the cave. They made the decision to look just a little further and around the next corner. They made a decision to leave the light zone. They made the decision to dive above their level of training. It is possible they even made the decision to take a light, (we do not know for sure yet) which at OW they are not authorized to have. They made all these decisions after knowing good and well, Ginnie does a good job letting folks know, that he was not allowed to dive there. That is why I still say you do not wander in to the Catacombs.

 

[ucfdiver]

True but if we begin a revamped education campaign, let's start at the bottom rung and work up. Better, IMO, to start at a level that everyone can identify with. At least by emphasising the merits of proper gear and training to new divers or openwater divers, we may have a chance to modify behavior. As for the folks who have a bit of training and a little experience and then set off to find fame and fortune, that requires a whole different strategy.

I suppose. Currently there is-

1. Information on the internet about not diving in caves without training
2. A waiver that states do not go in the cave without trainnig.
3. A video that states not to go in the cave without training.
4. At least 3 signs around Devils on land that state do not go in the cave without training
5. A sign in each devils eye and devils ear that states do not dive the cave without training.

If you believe a list of deaths would convince them not to do it, by all means suggest it to Rose. Personally I'm a bit skeptical.

 

[cruiser]

At Ginnie you sign by each paragraph of a rules document, then a waiver. http://ginniespringsoutdoors.com/AdultWaiver.pdf You also write down your address, cert info, etc. they do no require a buddy be with you, do not monitor your dive plan. They do make you watch a video that reinforces the rules you signed to attest you knew.

Does this mean Ginnie allows solo diving?