Gilboa Scuba Patrol??

[chrpai]

cornfed once bubbled...


It depends on what Gilboa decides. They could decide that only Mares Ruby Abyss regs are allowed blow 60 ft, you have to have an HID light, a spare set of fins, redundant drysuits, 57 previous guided dives in that part of the quarry or any other stupid requirement they want. It's their quarry. We're not talking about lifeguards stopping shore divers on public beaches. We're not talking about diving in general.

Cornfed

Your twisting this around. I said

".... lets say you accept that it should be reported to Mike for the sake of argument...Before you can go report unsafe diving practices, there first has to be compete agreement on what is or is not unsafe diving practices..."

I'm not disputing that the quarry owner can set the policies he wants ( albeit at reduced revenue I can assure you ) The point I was making is if he encourgages people to report unsafe diving you have to first define unsafe diving.

 

[MikeFerrara]

chrpai once bubbled...


I think that is the point. While I agree that if you see someone about to do something unsafe something should be done... ( normally I try to talk to the person tactfully and discretely) but lets say you accept that it should be reported to Mike for the sake of argument...

Who is to say what is right or wrong? ( In that regard its VERY similiar to the MHK thing I said ) ... Before you can go report unsafe diving practices, there first has to be compete agreement on what is or is not unsafe diving practices.

I disagree. We don't need to agree on or define what is or isn't unsafe. All we need is the decision of one person (the owner) as to what is allowed and what isn't.

He also insists on people driving very slow on the property even though no one has been run over there.

 

[dcostanza]

Since my comment about an Al80 and a wetsuit has been utilized two times, allow me to elaborate on my position. This has nothing to do with the type of equipment a diver utilizes (as long as it can hold up to the deeper conditions)... It has everything to do with 1)Relatively new diver, 2)Single Al80 3) Wetsuit 4)Pre-dive stress of jumping into the deep side...stress elevated especially by those that are aware of current events.

If the student diver isn't ready for the temperature change it can be an "interesting experience" to say the least. A wetsuit isn't going to keep you toasty... All of a sudden the diver loses focus (possibly because of the cold) and drops to 70' or even deeper. Then the dive turns into a situation that needs to be addressed asap.
I am a believer that a person can condition themselves to dive deeper in a wetsuit...but students??

Single Al80, well, that isn't going to give much gas for the diver with an elevated breathing rate brought on by slight anxiety, let alone if something "happens" and there are two divers breathing on it.

Again... don't get me wrong...personally I could care less what type of equipment people use...as long as it is suited to the environment. Just wanted to clarify what has been quoted two times already...

Best Regards
Don

 

[cornfed]

chrpai once bubbled...


Your twisting this around. I said

".... lets say you accept that it should be reported to Mike for the sake of argument...Before you can go report unsafe diving practices, there first has to be compete agreement on what is or is not unsafe diving practices..."

I'm not disputing that the quarry owner can set the policies he wants ( albeit at reduced revenue I can assure you ) The point I was making is if he encourgages people to report unsafe diving you have to first define unsafe diving.

arrggh...

I'm not twisting anything around. Why would I report something to the quarry owner? Because he has asked me to report things like <insert violation here> or whatever else he doesn't want people to do.

Personally, I think the standard octopus set is inadequte. I use a long hose primary and think it is a safer setup. I'm not going to stop people and explain why I think this and I'm not going to run crying to the owner and tell him that other people aren't doing it.

Cornfed

 

[chrpai]

cornfed once bubbled...


arrggh...

I'm not twisting anything around. Why would I report something to the quarry owner? Because he has asked me to report things like <insert violation here> or whatever else he doesn't want people to do.

Personally, I think the standard octopus set is inadequte. I use a long hose primary and think it is a safer setup. I'm not going to stop people and explain why I think this and I'm not going to run crying to the owner and tell him that other people aren't doing it.

Cornfed

The point is, where is the list of <insert violation here>?

 

[cornfed]

chrpai once bubbled...


The point is, where is the list of <insert violation here>?

Mike, the infamous owner of Gilboa, pulls it out of his ***!

Why is the so ******* hard for you to understand!

Cornfed

 

[MikeFerrara]

chrpai once bubbled...
Quote from www.divegilboa.com

"Gilboa quarry is devoted to diving and dive training. The quarry has two distinct personalities: the shallow side at 5-65 ft provides great recreational enjoyment, while the deep side of the quarry with cold, dark depths of 120+ ft is perfect for technical training. "


There have been lengthy discussions about accidents at Gilboa, and lengthy discussions about what is Recreational diving vs Technical diving.

Now I offer the question, how does the above quote strike you? It strikes me a little odd since I consider 120 ft to be in Recreational land.

As a matter of history the line between what is recreational and what is technical has never been clearly defined. I dived the deep side of this quarry as a recreational (single tank, no redundancy) diver. I never enjoyed it much because there wasn't time or gas to do very much or go very far. It's not like a reef where you can bounce to 120 and work your way up. Now I enjoy diving over there. I have the gas and can darned near spend the afterneen down there. I'll also have a bottle of O2 to suck on on the way up. I can relax knowing that loosing a little gas to a free flow isn't a big deal.

for the most part I don't consider 120 in recreational land. I did at one time but no longer. The reason I did was because I wanted access to it and recreational was all I had. In fact I refuse to teach the PADI Deep Diver Specialty. That course doesn't teach any procedures specific to deep diving but rather just takes divers deep using the same procedures they use shallow. The standards won't even allow me to teach the use of redundancy beyond a pony bottle which, IMO, just complicates the issue by hanging another reg off the diver (the last injured diver had one I believe). Even at that there aren't any performance requirements that the diver practice actually deploying the pony so at this stage it's just extra balast anyway. The course doesn't teach any gas management beyond telling you to watch your gauges more often. How in the hell can anyone justify telling divers to go to 120 without planning their gas usage and planning to have enough to surface two people. Maybe it works in the Caribean following a guid but it don't work well here at all. There is Zero margin for error or coningincies. Add to that a diver who's skill level makes a very large margin for error desirable. I have no desire to ever see 120 again in a Al 80 with a single output valve and I won't take students there with that equipment. I never plan a 120 ft dive as a no-stop dive. Run a 120 ft dive on Dplan or V-planner for any times you want and see what it recommends for an ascent. Now compare that to what these divers are doing.

 

[dcostanza]

Cornfed..
"Mike, the infamous owner of Gilboa, pulls it out of his a$$!"

Out of curiousity, I'd like to know what proof do you have of that?

Do you personally know him as many here do?

Mike is actually very consistant on his policies as I'm sure everyone here will/can attest to.

Don

 

[chrpai]

cornfed once bubbled...


Mike, the infamous owner of Gilboa, pulls it out of his a$$!

Why is the so f*cking hard for you to understand!

Cornfed

Listen, your not reading correctly. I'm not disputing its HIS list to make. I'm asking WHERE IS THE LIST. You say there are divers around reporting unsafe violations.....

HOW DOES HE CONVEY TO THOSE REPORTING WHAT IS UNSAFE?

 

[chrpai]

dcostanza once bubbled...
Cornfed..


Mike is actually very consistant on his policies as I'm sure everyone here will/can attest to.

Thats exactly what I'm trying to ask. I found the "policies" on his website but there aren't any details there.