General Vortex Incident Discussion

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I can assure you this diver was warned of the dangers of diving in the OH, without proper training.

 

[Jax]

I never took a class on SM. What difference does it make?

:shocked2: You're gonna die! . . . . :ignore: Sorry, off topic. :sulkoff:





Seriously, though, how many people are diving doubles that don't have a doubles classe? IMO, getting a sidemount class simply jump-starts you into the new configuration. If there were a local mentor, I might think differently.

 

[PfcAJ]

If he was never going to go into a cave...why did he need SM?

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

:shocked2: You're gonna die! . . . . :ignore: Sorry, off topic. :sulkoff:





Seriously, though, how many people are diving doubles that don't have a doubles classe? IMO, getting a sidemount class simply jump-starts you into the new configuration. If there were a local mentor, I might think differently.

Yeah, one day I sure will

 

[mrmccoy]

I can assure you this diver was warned of the dangers of diving in the OH, without proper training.

Many times by multiple people

 

[vshearer]

Hey, Tortuga.

What is your opinion of Steve Spurrier?

Sheck did almost die at Peacock and Ginnie (the old passage) and only survived by digging his way out a different way than he came in, with no guideline. I do realize it was these experiences that led him to develop and promote safe cave diving technique, but had he died I would have to agree he would have been considered just another statistic of what not to do at the time.

 

[Wobbegong wannabe]

I don't know about everyone else but it is getting more and more difficult to figure out who is the target at the moment..... deepswim dude or lost in the cave dude....

The target is idiots.

IMO both deepswim and the missing person qualify for the term whether the missing person is living it up in Cuba or decorating an obscure part of the cave. I'm a noob diver (who didn't expect to be posting in the Cave section of Scubaboard for another 5 years or so :shocked2 but I do work in aviation safety and have reasonable Australian remote area experience, i.e. driving through deserts that kill idiots fairly regularly. In short, I know about risk management, required skills and how not to end up as the star attraction in a Coronial Inquest. The key skills are knowing one's limitations, planning for unexpected occurances and carrying back-up gear. This applies to any risky activity.

In the good ol' days, people who ended up as Coronial Inquest stars due to risky activities were written up as adventurers, romancers and all round cool dudes. The problem with today's insurance / litigation driven society is that their activities often result in a curtailing of other peoples' enjoyment. In short, a fatality in a cave may restrict other, more capable divers' access to that cave, even though the initial victim displayed an outstanding lack of training and / or common sense and probably shouldn't have been let out of the house unsupervised.

Deepswim's YouTube exploits are probably no stupider than terabytes of other YouTube 'stars'. The Queensland Police Service recently rounded up a large chunk of my city's graffiti vandals, train surfers (don't ask) and people who are complused to drive at 150mph on public roads, by actively watching YouTube and recording details. Many of the resulting defendants were horrified that the crap they posted on the internet could be used as evidence. They seemed to think that they were not accountable for the idiocy they had 1. undertaken, 2. recorded and 3. posted on the internet to boast about their 'bravery'. Fortunately, a month of cleaning trains was the worst price they paid.

The only reason we (as the sensible people) should be concerned about fatal victims' stupid, untrained and foolhardy antics is that their grieving families agitate for legislative control that prevents us from engaging in our own freedoms and activities.

There is a type of person who can be warned of every danger, who can be advised to desist by the best in the field but who will still persist in becoming a statistic. The missing person appears to be one of those people, whether he is currently whooping it up in a tropical location or making his excuses to Saint Peter. Either way (from an AOW novice on the other side of the planet) he appears to have shown rampant disregard for the family and friends who insist on defending his reputation. Please correct me if I'm wrong but whatever the scenario and whatever the outcome, this intriguing story displays selfishness of the highest order on the part of the missing person.

Thank you again for the quality information I've gained from this board since learning to dive.

 

[Jax]

Damn fine post, Wannabe!!! Thank you.

 

[diverdoug1]

If he was never going to go into a cave...why did he need SM?

I know that the guys at Diverite are touting the benfits of SM to OW divers in liveaboard situations, becuse it will be so easy to pass the tanks up to the divemaster, and that liveabooards are starting to support sidemount. I personaly do not agree with anything in they are saying here. I do a LOT of liveaboards, and never seen anyone slingin' tanks.

 

[Meister481]

we can't call a stroke a stroke either. that's what this guy was (is?).

We can, and do. Now his family has to deal with the grief of knowing just how senseless this was. I have a funny feeling that they might go after vortex over this. They are asking pointed questions about some innocuous activity during the whole ordeal.

Deepswim should go about his business, he's not going to listen so the best thing we can do with him is use him as an example when he gets bent or worse.

Guess what, Exely did die in a cave. I don't see too many people calling him a stroke over it.

Gary Gentile has a quote in one of his books on the subject, I don't recall the exact words but it goes something like "Pioneers and explorers forge ahead, making them a better target for backstabbers"

Something like that.