General Vortex Incident Discussion

[Dive-aholic]

Line running is a hard skill to teach. When you're in class, you're running it primarily for looks (let's get real, NO ONE is going to get lost in JB without a primary) so it's hard to show the importance, but it's essential practice for other caves.

Not necessarily true...

Chipola Divers Cave Diving videos - check out the 2nd to last video.

 

[Fox-Cousteau]

Did you find the the cave training made you a better Wreck diver?

Forgive me for answering a question directed to someone else, but I'd like to wade in here:

I noticed a huge improvement in my overall skills and specifically in wreck dives after passing Cavern.
Passing my intro to Cave improved my skills even more!
The course work is important, however, the instructor is the biggest difference. I was smart enough to have a "tough" instructor who doesn't accept a "good enough" skill level.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Not necessarily true...

Indeed. Last time I saw JB siphoning a diver (I didn't know his name) went in to see if we could make it to clear water at a reasonable distance... everyone there really wanted to dive bad. When he got back he was a little spooked, 'cause he'd momentarily lost the line after he'd tied into the main line. One of those "WTF am I doin'?" moments.
I packed my gear back up and went over to Vortex
Rick

 

[Fox-Cousteau]

And vice versa; cave training doesn't prepare one to dive wrecks!

For what it is worth, I totally agree. and I think there was a discussion thread about this very topic in the cave forum last year or maybe longer ago... There was something about an instructor teaching "Wreck Penetration" in the caves. Two different types of training required.

 

[Rick Murchison]

And vice versa; cave training doesn't prepare one to dive wrecks!

However... I totally abandoned any thought of ever using the "progressive penetration" method again. And I believe my wreck diving took a quantum leap in the "safer" direction after cave training.
Put another way, I highly recommend cave training for any wreck diver.
Rick

 

[kathydee]

BTW, there are cave instructors who offer supervised cavern 'tours' outside of GUE and even outside of MX.

Of course .

 

[mike_s]

Search for missing diver will resume after Labor Day | ponce, day, resume - News - The News Herald



Search for missing diver will resume after Labor Day
Comments 0
September 02, 2010 12:02:00 AM
JAY FELSBERG
Florida Freedom Newspapers

PONCE DE LEON — The search for missing diver Ben McDaniel will resume after Labor Day using underwater cameras and fresh divers.

Capt. Harry Hamilton of the Holmes County Sheriff’s Office announced the plan after consulting with diving experts Tuesday at Vortex Springs north of Ponce de Leon. McDaniel, 30, of Collierville, Tenn. just outside of Memphis, was reported missing Aug. 20 after having not been seen at Vortex Springs since the preceding Wednesday. His vehicle, wallet and diving logbook were found but there was no sign of McDaniel. The missing man was a regular diver at the popular diving location off State 81.

Hamilton said an underwater video camera would probably be employed in the search and that cave divers from around the nation were expected to help.

Several teams of expert divers, including qualified cave divers and cave diving instructors, have already searched the more than 1,600-foot cave at Vortex Springs that drops as much as 165 feet deep. Two of McDaniel’s tanks were found outside the cave and there are indications that someone penetrated to the final obstruction in the cave, a crevasse that has not been entered to date.

It is believed that McDaniel could have been trying to map the complete cave and that he could have somehow gotten through the crevasse, pushing his gear and equipment through in front of him.

The dive to the final obstruction gets increasingly dangerous, according to several expert divers who have participated in the search. The cave narrows and drops sharply, with a number of cutouts on either side where a diver could get confused and panic, they said. The dive requires teamwork, and divers must leave decompression tanks along their path for the decompression necessary as they back through the cave.

Hamilton said search divers would not go into the deepest restrictions and would check all crevasses again using the camera if available.

“Even with experts, there have been several close calls,” Hamilton said.

All of the divers who have helped in the search are volunteers.

McDaniel’s family drove from Tennessee as soon as they were informed he was missing. They are staying at Vortex Springs.

 

[lurk-n-learn]

Search for missing diver will resume after Labor Day | ponce, day, resume - News - The News Herald



Search for missing diver will resume after Labor Day
Comments 0
September 02, 2010 12:02:00 AM
JAY FELSBERG
Florida Freedom Newspapers

PONCE DE LEON — The search for missing diver Ben McDaniel will resume after Labor Day using underwater cameras and fresh divers.

Capt. Harry Hamilton of the Holmes County Sheriff’s Office announced the plan after consulting with diving experts Tuesday at Vortex Springs north of Ponce de Leon. McDaniel, 30, of Collierville, Tenn. just outside of Memphis, was reported missing Aug. 20 after having not been seen at Vortex Springs since the preceding Wednesday. His vehicle, wallet and diving logbook were found but there was no sign of McDaniel. The missing man was a regular diver at the popular diving location off State 81.

Hamilton said an underwater video camera would probably be employed in the search and that cave divers from around the nation were expected to help.

Several teams of expert divers, including qualified cave divers and cave diving instructors, have already searched the more than 1,600-foot cave at Vortex Springs that drops as much as 165 feet deep. Two of McDaniel’s tanks were found outside the cave and there are indications that someone penetrated to the final obstruction in the cave, a crevasse that has not been entered to date.
It is believed that McDaniel could have been trying to map the complete cave and that he could have somehow gotten through the crevasse, pushing his gear and equipment through in front of him.
The dive to the final obstruction gets increasingly dangerous, according to several expert divers who have participated in the search. The cave narrows and drops sharply, with a number of cutouts on either side where a diver could get confused and panic, they said. The dive requires teamwork, and divers must leave decompression tanks along their path for the decompression necessary as they back through the cave.

Hamilton said search divers would not go into the deepest restrictions and would check all crevasses again using the camera if available.

“Even with experts, there have been several close calls,” Hamilton said.

All of the divers who have helped in the search are volunteers.

McDaniel’s family drove from Tennessee as soon as they were informed he was missing. They are staying at Vortex Springs.

I hope for the family's sake they are at least able to visualize something on the other side! Prayers for the safty of those who attempt to do this again!

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

You really believe everything you read in the media? They also claimed he was an advanced tek diver.

Search for missing diver will resume after Labor Day | ponce, day, resume - News - The News Herald



Search for missing diver will resume after Labor Day
Comments 0
September 02, 2010 12:02:00 AM
JAY FELSBERG
Florida Freedom Newspapers

PONCE DE LEON — The search for missing diver Ben McDaniel will resume after Labor Day using underwater cameras and fresh divers.

Capt. Harry Hamilton of the Holmes County Sheriff’s Office announced the plan after consulting with diving experts Tuesday at Vortex Springs north of Ponce de Leon. McDaniel, 30, of Collierville, Tenn. just outside of Memphis, was reported missing Aug. 20 after having not been seen at Vortex Springs since the preceding Wednesday. His vehicle, wallet and diving logbook were found but there was no sign of McDaniel. The missing man was a regular diver at the popular diving location off State 81.

Hamilton said an underwater video camera would probably be employed in the search and that cave divers from around the nation were expected to help.

Several teams of expert divers, including qualified cave divers and cave diving instructors, have already searched the more than 1,600-foot cave at Vortex Springs that drops as much as 165 feet deep. Two of McDaniel’s tanks were found outside the cave and there are indications that someone penetrated to the final obstruction in the cave, a crevasse that has not been entered to date.
It is believed that McDaniel could have been trying to map the complete cave and that he could have somehow gotten through the crevasse, pushing his gear and equipment through in front of him.
The dive to the final obstruction gets increasingly dangerous, according to several expert divers who have participated in the search. The cave narrows and drops sharply, with a number of cutouts on either side where a diver could get confused and panic, they said. The dive requires teamwork, and divers must leave decompression tanks along their path for the decompression necessary as they back through the cave.

Hamilton said search divers would not go into the deepest restrictions and would check all crevasses again using the camera if available.

“Even with experts, there have been several close calls,” Hamilton said.

All of the divers who have helped in the search are volunteers.

McDaniel’s family drove from Tennessee as soon as they were informed he was missing. They are staying at Vortex Springs.
[/QUO

I hope for the family's sake they are at least able to visualize something on the other side! Prayers for the safty of those who attempt to do this again!

 

[ktomlinson]

His poor family is still there? That has to be tortuous. I hope they get closure.