General Vortex Incident Discussion

[Cave Diver]

How much time would you recommend between the courses? I've heard of a few "Zero-to-Hero" courses . . .

I don't think it's possible to give a recommended time. It's no so much about time as it is about doing dives and getting comfortable. You can wait two years between courses, but if you're not diving in between, what's the point?

I did the Zero-to-Hero course. I never had a real intention of diving caves, I did it for the skillset. But once I was there, I was hooked. I don't mind saying that I struggled with it either, especially the first few days. My instructor told me after the first day of skills that we would probably just finish the cavern portion and call it quits. By the end of the second day I was showing drastic improvements, so we continued on. By the end of the class I was tired both mentally and physically and felt like I'd been in a car wreck. But I was also relaxed and comfortable and we were able to get in all the dives, all the skills and even had time to do some "fun" dives before I left.

Three of my buddies also elected to take overhead training after me, but all of them chose to break it up. That was mostly due to time constraints, but all of them said they doubt they would have been up for taking it straight through. One stopped after completing cavern, one is intro and my main dive buddy went on to take full cave. But I accompanied each of them as their buddy during training so it was almost like a refresher course for me each time.

It really, really boils down to the individual and to the instructor teaching the class.

 

[tracydr]

Not a cave diver here, so maybe the cave instructors out there could clarify: I'd gotten the impression that most cave agencies required and reputable instructors performed a certain amount of psychological screening when certifying people. If so, then discussing how any criteria were or were not met by an accident victim wouldn't seem out of line.

OTOH, use of technical terms by non-mental health care professionals speaking mostly to other non-professionals might not be so appropriate, especially when talking about hot-button labels like "psychotic".

If you're referring to my usage of mental health terms I'm a physician and have been trained in psychiatry as part of my medical training. I work in a setting where I must quickly recognize serious mental disorders so that I can get patients to appropriate mental health facilities.
Besides, I didn't say he could be a sociopath. I said my EX was sociopathic and bipolar. I was talking about his bipolar tendencies, not a possible personality disorder. My EX would things well beyond his level of training and abilities when he was manic. His sociopath disorder caused him to lie, cheat and steal like nobody's business.

 

[tracydr]

The incident portrayed in the video took place at Otter Springs... The cave diver who made those rescues was Woody Jasper, a pioneer sidemount cave diver.

Woody's interview which addresses the need for proper training and equipment for diving in overhead is one of the best you will ever see and should be viewed by all divers along with the rest of the story on that incident...

Those divers and their familes are very fortunate that Woody was the diver present that day. Woody did a great thing for the cave diving community by addressing the fact that the divers were not cave divers and were not trained to be there but could have safely made the dive with such training and gear...and he did so by using his training, specialized equipment and skill to save lives in an environment where such incidents almost always yield recovered bodies not rescued victims.....

How do we view this show? Is it available on the Internet or netflix?

 

[kathydee]

GUE doesn't have a cavern course or an "apprentice" either.

No, GUE doesn't offer a cavern course, but once you have passed Fundies, if looking for a gentle introduction to caves you can certainly gain pre-Cave 1 skills/experience through cavern tours guided by GUE instructors down at Zero Gravity in Mexico.

Not sure if these "tours" are available in other parts of the world?

 

[mike_s]

How do we view this show? Is it available on the Internet or netflix?

Middle of Dive-oholic's page.


look for Rescue 911 youtube video on his page

Chipola Divers - Diving the fresh water springs...



EDIT: Here's video From You Tube. (two videos, part 1 and part 2)

Rescue 911 - Part 1
[youtubehq]FkALlYZYfrc[/youtubehq]


Rescue 911 - Part 2
[youtubehq]zzDL-rSAD3A[/youtubehq]

 

[PfcAJ]

How much time would you recommend between the courses? I've heard of a few "Zero-to-Hero" courses . . .

I like GUE's idea of at least 25 dives between classes.

You get a lot of learning done by going and and out of the cave. Decent, ascent, deco (min deco or whateva), and learning the first 500-1000ft of popular caves. This sets a foundation for going farther. You know whats what, and whats where. Some entrances are particularly interesting, like Devil's Eye/Ear, negotiating the flow while running a reel and such.

Being proficient at that phase of the dive allows you to conserve gas on entrance, carry less stress into the cave, and take away more from your class time. The less you have to worry about (physically, mentally), the better you will perform.

If you're still struggling with basic cave tasks, how can you be expected to learn more advanced?

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

No, GUE doesn't offer a cavern course, but once you have passed Fundies, if looking for a gentle introduction to caves you can certainly gain pre-Cave 1 skills/experience through cavern tours guided by GUE instructors down at Zero Gravity in Mexico.

Not sure if these "tours" are available in other parts of the world?

...and there's nothing at all to say that you can't take a cavern course from another agency and continue further through the GUE route.


BTW, there are cave instructors who offer supervised cavern 'tours' outside of GUE and even outside of MX.

 

[rjack321]

If you're still struggling with basic cave tasks, how can you be expected to learn more advanced?

Even if you are completing the basic stuff "well" how deep of a base is that to build on? For example, I've found running a line in a cold water cave/mine with dry gloves is a whole new experience.

 

[ucfdiver]

Even if you are completing the basic stuff "well" how deep of a base is that to build on? For example, I've found running a line in a cold water cave/mine with dry gloves is a whole new experience.

Line running is a hard skill to teach. When you're in class, you're running it primarily for looks (let's get real, NO ONE is going to get lost in JB without a primary) so it's hard to show the importance, but it's essential practice for other caves.

 

[rjack321]

Line running is a hard skill to teach. When you're in class, you're running it primarily for looks (let's get real, NO ONE is going to get lost in JB without a primary) so it's hard to show the importance, but it's essential practice for other caves.

oh its fun with bare hands, its a pita when your dry gloves barely fit through the handle and you can't feel your thumb at all - on the spool or otherwise!