General Vortex Incident Discussion

[Rick Murchison]

Thanks Rick. Is this the only gate in the system? How far back from the entrance and/or other gates?

Yes, the only gate. There is a "grate" blocking off another side tunnel, but that's always closed off. The gate is at a depth of 110' some 300' into the cave (beyond the Grim Reaper sign). The large room off which the gate leads is called the "piano room" and features overhead light strings and a talk box... it's very pretty... an "attractive nuisance" if ever there was one. But... to my knowledge countless thousands of open water divers have safely made the trip to the piano room and back without any casualties, and it's hard to argue that it's a hazard when the numbers don't support it. The last diver to die in the cave downstream of the gate at Vortex (newly certified OW diver) was over a decade ago and the passage he went into has been permanently closed with a rebar grate.
Still, I'd like to see the lights go away.
Rick

 

[spector39]

I have not read this whole thread so sorry if this has been asked before. But before the accident, how did access to the gated area work? Were only certain divers allowed (depending on cert level perhaps?)

Also, can someone recap what happened to the gate? Is it known that he bypassed the gate to gain access?

 

[Hetland]

I have not read this whole thread so sorry if this has been asked before. But before the accident, how did access to the gated area work? Were only certain divers allowed (depending on cert level perhaps?)

Divers with a full cave cert were able to check out a key to the gate.

Also, can someone recap what happened to the gate? Is it known that he bypassed the gate to gain access?

According to his logbook (read by the recovery divers) he partially disabled a gate hinge, then used a padlock to "repair" the hinge. This allowed him to open the gate by opening his personal lock. The gate would otherwise work as intended, so most folks would become suspicious (by encountering a gate that was just forced open, or disabled).

 

[Jax]

This is a great discussion on Accident Analyisis for those who are not familiar.

Accident Analysis Doppler's Tech Diving Blog

Doppler is a well-know training authority in SDI/TDI.

 

[Cave Diver]

I have not read this whole thread so sorry if this has been asked before. But before the accident, how did access to the gated area work? Were only certain divers allowed (depending on cert level perhaps?)

Also, can someone recap what happened to the gate? Is it known that he bypassed the gate to gain access?

Certified cave divers left their c-cards with staff and were given a key to the gate.

The gate was made out of simple rebar with chain wrapped around it and bolted together forming hinges on one side and a lock was used on the other side. The bolts holding one of the chain hinges together was removed, and replaced with the divers own padlock, allowing him to bypass the lock on the other side of the gate.

 

[mike_s]

picture of the gate I found. It appears he's unlocking the lock on the chain.

(for reference, I think this is Bugman and photo taken by SPD_135. Maybe one of them can give some details about it. )

 

[karstdvr]

PS -> -> -> @ karstdvr: I'm not taking aim at you specifically. You just happen to be the one who has posted what "everybody knows." Unfortunately, in this case, as is all too often the case, what "everybody knows"... isn't.

Take aim,that is not a problem. I don't keep statisitics,or newspaper articles for all fatalities,so I am going with collective memory. I would figure with 12XXX scubaboard posts,you probably have a greater propensity to recall the information I am refering to. I do recall there were a couple open water diver fatalities in the "safe" cave zone in a very short time,which alarmed the agencies,but I can't recall the year. I have concern for all commercial dive sites with a cave,that tell the visitors that it is okay to enter because....... Obviously there is nothing that can be done,and as long as the money made exceeds the liability,then this practice will continue.

 

[cruiser]

When a dive team is done with their cave dive and exits the cave, do they lock the gate behind them?

If so, how do they know they're NOT locking in other divers who are still in the cave system?

 

[Docc]

Here's another photo:

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

picture of the gate I found. It appears he's unlocking the lock on the chain.

(for reference, I think this is Bugman and photo taken by SPD_135. Maybe one of them can give some details about it. )

What do you want to know? Thats me

When a dive team is done with their cave dive and exits the cave, do they lock the gate behind them?

If so, how do they know they're NOT locking in other divers who are still in the cave system?

Any diver who's certified to get beyond the gate will do so with one of two keys, or wait until a key is available. Anyone who wants to sneak in is doing so at their own risk.

I lock the gate closed behind me, when I exit. I lock the gate open, when I enter.






Its not impossible to overlook someone who comes in behind you, they'd have to be in a very tight small side passage, and do so very cleanly, not to be noticed on the exit... It IS very improbable.