General Vortex Incident Discussion

[alohagal]

No-one is obliged to answer questions. If you ask a question and people refuse to answer then surely that's that. The same applies to the Sheriff's Office if people choose to exercise their right to silence. Why should here be any different?

Thanks for the enlightenment Oh OBIWAN.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

He had plenty of time to wiggle himself into the very back as his final challenge.

I think the Mexico speculation is sheer crap.

Speaking of sheer crap, getting into the back of a cave thats chest-to-back-tall without leaving any sign whatsoever is crap.

Mythological crap at that.

How does the WORKER know that Ben was stealing gas?
I focus on these two things because it was two issues that have been used to proffer the lack of character and ongoing speculative motivations of this selfish, moronic, stupid, dumb-ass, of a diver who has caused people to put their own lives at risk. blah, blah, blah.

Focus on what you want... but I think most of us would base his selfish, moronic, stupid, dumb-ass, character on the pure fact that he was diving well outside his training and skill level.

Crazy Contortionist Art: Bodies in Urban Spaces : WebUrbanist

I'll be impressed when they start contorting steel 130 scuba tanks

 

[alohagal]

And if he was that stupid why couldn't he go NO-MOUNT. The option is...if he is not in the cave, he is in Mexico? Guess he gets the last laugh...for now.

 

[PfcAJ]

He could go no mount, but an 8'' diameter tank still won't fit in a 4'' hole.

 

[alohagal]

So, I guess Ben is the only one accountable here. No one else did anything wrong. All persons involved with Vortex, as diver or employee are on the up and up at all times. Okay...I get it now.
And any rumors about air, locks, keys, missing keys, non-missing keys, escorts through gates, lack of timely forthcoming of the truth...that can all be dismissed as non essential to the conversation.

 

[alohagal]

He could go no mount, but an 8'' diameter tank still won't fit in a 4'' hole.

And I guess all the holes in the cave are made of concrete and metal and remain constant at all times.

 

[lurk-n-learn]

So, I guess Ben is the only one accountable here. No one else did anything wrong. All persons involved with Vortex, as diver or employee are on the up and up at all times. Okay...I get it now.
And any rumors about air, locks, keys, missing keys, non-missing keys, escorts through gates, lack of timely forthcoming of the truth...that can all be dismissed as non essential to the conversation.

Yep!
And lets not address the FACTS:
A. Ben was a risk taker and adrenaline junkie
B. Ben wanted to MAP THE CAVE past current maps
C. Ben believed he was capable of doing so
D. Ben went diving Vortex that day and has not been seen since
No one has gone as far into the cave as 1 other human has and the search teams would not attempt going that far because they wanted to come out ALIVE
Repeat....all of the above.

Save the beer gal, you will not have to spend your money....

 

[Hetland]

How does the WORKER know that Ben was stealing gas?

If he was diving there every day and not getting fills, then it would be reasonable to suspect he was stealing gas. Personally, I think that (the gas stealing) is irrelevant and a red herring at best.

I focus on these two things because it was two issues that have been used to proffer the lack of character and ongoing speculative motivations of this selfish, moronic, stupid, dumb-ass, of a diver who has caused people to put their own lives at risk. blah, blah, blah.

I've only seen the gas stealing mentioned in passing, and had forgotten about it until it was brought back up again. Either way, irrelevant and red herring.

I think it matters a tiny bit whether or not he tampered with the gate to get by. We know from the log that he made multiple trips past the gate, and have evidence that suggests this happened at least once prior from deepswim's video.

While tampering with the gate makes Ben look worse, he only looks marginally better if we (for the sake of argument) accept he did not tamper with the gate. Even if he went in without tampering, he was still well past the place he was trained to be. In addition to exceeding overhead training requirements, he also exceed the depth that he was trained for. 100ft might not seem like a big deal to some people, but Ben was headed to 165-170ft on air, not the place you want to be while task loading. On top of all of this, his gear was not configured in a safe manner. Changing regs underwater is not a safe practice. He was smart enough to know all of this, but continued pushing his luck.

So, now this dumb-ass is clever enough to be laughing in Mexico somewhere at his well thought out, planned and staged shenanigans. Salut

On this I'll agree with you... to a point. I don't think Ben was stupid, I think he thought he was better than he actually was. All of us have suffered that same frailty at one point or another in our lives.

IF Ben is in that cave, his ego got him there, not his IQ. If he's not in that cave, then the only two options I see remaining are foul play or hoax.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

And if he was that stupid why couldn't he go NO-MOUNT. The option is...if he is not in the cave, he is in Mexico? Guess he gets the last laugh...for now.

If he NO-MOUNTed, he'd still leave marks on the walls, ceiling, and floor.

... and we woulda found the tank he left behind! Brilliant!

So, I guess Ben is the only one accountable here. No one else did anything wrong. All persons involved with Vortex, as diver or employee are on the up and up at all times. Okay...I get it now.

Nobody forced his hand, personal responsibility goes a long way. Why point fingers at anyone else? He knew it was wrong and he continued with his dives.

And any rumors about air, locks, keys, missing keys, non-missing keys, escorts through gates, lack of timely forthcoming of the truth...that can all be dismissed as non essential to the conversation.

Glad you're starting to get it

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

And I guess all the holes in the cave are made of concrete and metal and remain constant at all times.

LOL, sure, its not like they're made of limestone or anything? Vortex isn't made from icecream.

You're really, really starting to show how much you don't know about caves.