General Vortex Incident Discussion

[alohagal]

How does the WORKER know that Ben was stealing gas?
I focus on these two things because it was two issues that have been used to proffer the lack of character and ongoing speculative motivations of this selfish, moronic, stupid, dumb-ass, of a diver who has caused people to put their own lives at risk. blah, blah, blah.

So, now this dumb-ass is clever enough to be laughing in Mexico somewhere at his well thought out, planned and staged shenanigans. Salut

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

If Ben had his handy dandy lock on the gate, then he was able to dive at Vortex at whim. Day or night on his year off. How many people on the recovery have been diving at Vortex that far back the last few years? I would say very few, since it sounds like it is not the premiere cave to choose. He had plenty of time to wiggle himself into the very back as his final challenge.

I think the Mexico speculation is sheer crap. And I will buy everyone here a case of Cerveza's if and when it is proven true.

Mary your speculation is way off base. You need to listen to the FACTS!! Ben could not get back there. If he did, the cave would have signs of that. The tracks do not go away for a LONG time. Specualting he is back there is crap, not sure what makes you think that but you need to listen to those that know Caves. This pot is dead. There is nothing left to stir. You will have to do like everyone else and wait for answers. Everyone involved wishes we had answers as to where he is but we don't. We do know for a fact he isn't in the back.

 

[Docc]

YouTube - BEN

 

[alohagal]

Mary your speculation is way off base. You need to listen to the FACTS!! Ben could not get back there. If he did, the cave would have signs of that. The tracks do not go away for a LONG time. Specualting he is back there is crap, not sure what makes you think that but you need to listen to those that know Caves. This pot is dead. There is nothing left to stir. You will have to do like everyone else and wait for answers. Everyone involved wishes we had answers as to where he is but we don't. We do know for a fact he isn't in the back.

Speculation? More like spewing sarcasm. Glad you KNOW FOR A FACT! GLAD YOU HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS. GOOD FOR YOU.
Interesting I get PM's about the worker this and the worker that. Just like in medicine you guys protect your own.

Still have not answered my two questions about the lock and the air. Is that so much to ask. And why is this stirring the pot?

 

[ScubaNurse758]

Q Why do you never take just one Baptist fishing?

A Because he will drink all your beer.

Q: Whats the difference between a baptist and a presbyterian??
A: A presbyterian will speak to you in the liquor store.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I am not speculating. Everyone else here is.

No, I will not. If you want to believe he is in the back then go get cave certified, learn about the geology and conditions and then say he is back there. Anyone who doe this knows its IMPOSSIBLE for a HUMAN to get through this restriction. Could he be somewhere else? Sure, with NO signs anywhere and No other tunnels its highly unlikely but possible. The Fact we are telling you is HE ISN'T IN THE BACK.

 

[alohagal]

No, I will not. If you want to believe he is in the back then go get cave certified, learn about the geology and conditions and then say he is back there. Anyone who doe this knows its IMPOSSIBLE for a HUMAN to get through this restriction. Could he be somewhere else? Sure, with NO signs anywhere and No other tunnels its highly unlikely but possible. The Fact we are telling you is HE ISN'T IN THE BACK.

Front, back, sideway,under sand...makes no difference to me. I think he is in the cave. However, I will acquiesce to your expertise and those who know cave diving.:cool2:

Just can someone please answer the two questions I still have about the LOCK and the STEALING OF AIR.

 

[Wobbegong wannabe]

No-one is obliged to answer questions. If you ask a question and people refuse to answer then surely that's that. The same applies to the Sheriff's Office if people choose to exercise their right to silence. Why should here be any different?

 

[alohagal]

Crazy Contortionist Art: Bodies in Urban Spaces : WebUrbanist

 

[Divedoggie]

How does the WORKER know that Ben was stealing gas?
I focus on these two things because it was two issues that have been used to proffer the lack of character and ongoing speculative motivations of this selfish, moronic, stupid, dumb-ass, of a diver who has caused people to put their own lives at risk. blah, blah, blah.

So, now this dumb-ass is clever enough to be laughing in Mexico somewhere at his well thought out, planned and staged shenanigans. Salut

He could have pulled a disappearing act off without extensive planning or great smarts as hypothesized earlier.

Put the pieces together.

He didn't have a cave card to leave at the desk in trade for a the legitimate key.
He had delusions of being a grand cave diver and had sold friends and family on this, but refused to get the proper training. He was a few months into a year off from work and was being faced with the reality of having to start off as a newbie in the cave diving world. His ego wouldn't take that.
He found a way to get in so that he could prove to everyone that he didn't need the training. He couldn't handle being told no. Couldn't handle rejection. Who knows what may have sent him over the edge. But he may have started placing bottles for his big dive and then scared himself. He could have finished the first dive and as he walked into the parking lot the idea to just keep on walking popped into his head, and he just kept on walking, or got a ride. Maybe he dumped his gear in the woods and then came back later and picked it up. Now he's in too deep(bad pun) and is faced with following through or aadmitting his folly. Its not that far fetched!

Searchers have stated there is evidence he tampered with the grate itself, as well as the hinge system.
He didn't have enough gas to get to the back of the cave.
He, and his equipment were too big to get past the tiny restriction.
There are no scrapes, discolorations, or any other evidence that anyone had been back there.
The cave has been searched over and over again. He's not there.
So, everyone starts speculating...