General Vortex Incident Discussion

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm just curious as to what Ben trained with, that's all. Did he go through his training with one din reg and one yolk reg? Is that kosher with his instructor? We'll never know....

... so why don't you just ask his instructor?

And FWIW - it's yoke. Yolk is the yellow part of an egg ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[PfcAJ]

Enlighten you on the questionable stuff? Really? Ok.

Howabout the lady that died at Ginnie after being left alone? Or Bruce Bosshart's death (heck, his dive buddy didn't even know what passage they were in). The guy at Allen Millpond? Or the lady that died at Peacock? Solid plan. Oh wait, that was a medical. Joe and Yessic? People KNEW they were going to Wayne's World. Mark Fyvie's death was interesting, as well. How many places could these deaths have been prevented? And these are just the fatalities! Who KNOWS how many close calls there are that are not talked about on open forums. But I guess what's going on in cave diving is just fine, right Kevin?

Bob, thanks for showing me that. I always type it out at light speed, and yolk is what comes out. I'll go fix it.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

You have the answer to make cave diving a zero fatality sport?

If nobody dived caves, it wouldn't be an issue...

 

[PfcAJ]

I have a few suggestions...

 

[ScubaSteve]

You have the answer to make cave diving a zero fatality sport?

If nobody dived caves, it wouldn't be an issue...

I am guessing it has nothing to do with personal responsibility since that does not seem to be what he is lobbying against. My guess is it will be to stop all SM training for any but cave divers because any non cave diving SM diver is sure to go into a tight restriction and kill themselves.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Enlighten you on the questionable stuff? Really? Ok.

Howabout the lady that died at Ginnie after being left alone? Or Bruce Bosshart's death (heck, his dive buddy didn't even know what passage they were in). The guy at Allen Millpond? Or the lady that died at Peacock? Solid plan. Oh wait, that was a medical. Joe and Yessic? People KNEW they were going to Wayne's World. Mark Fyvie's death was interesting, as well. How many places could these deaths have been prevented? And these are just the fatalities! Who KNOWS how many close calls there are that are not talked about on open forums. But I guess what's going on in cave diving is just fine, right Kevin?

But the point you're missing is that those weren't failures of training ... nor did they have anything to do with the configuration the divers were using, which if I'm not mistaken covered SM, BM, and CCR.

The one thing all of those accidents had in common were divers knowingly exceeding the limits of their training. In other words ... those were errors in judgment in which the only responsible parties were the divers themselves.

And as Asimov put it in one of his books ... "against stupidity, the Gods themselves struggle in vain".

Look, I can appreciate your concern ... I share it in a lot of ways with respect to other things I see going on out there ... fresh out of OW divers going solo for example. But I don't blame instructors or equipment configurations for that issue ... it's purely on the shoulders of the individual diver.

Bob, thanks for showing me that. I always type it out at light speed, and yolk is what comes out. I'll go fix it.

No worries ... it's one of those errors that shows up frequently on ScubaBoard ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I am guessing it has nothing to do with personal respondibility since that does not seem to be what he is lobbying against. My guess is it will be to stop all SM training for any but cave divers because any non cave diving SM diver is sure to go into a tight restriction and kill themselves.

... reminds me of the old dinosaurs I see in my neck of the woods insisting that anybody wearing a backplate and using a long hose is gonna kill themselves using all that "tech sh!t" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Enlighten you on the questionable stuff? Really? Ok.

Howabout the lady that died at Ginnie after being left alone? Or Bruce Bosshart's death (heck, his dive buddy didn't even know what passage they were in). The guy at Allen Millpond? Or the lady that died at Peacock? Solid plan. Oh wait, that was a medical. Joe and Yessic? People KNEW they were going to Wayne's World. Mark Fyvie's death was interesting, as well. How many places could these deaths have been prevented? And these are just the fatalities! Who KNOWS how many close calls there are that are not talked about on open forums. But I guess what's going on in cave diving is just fine, right Kevin?

Bob, thanks for showing me that. I always type it out at light speed, and yolk is what comes out. I'll go fix it.

I didn't know about all of those, that's why I asked. I do appreciate the info. Several of those broke rules, no its not ok. Its not ok about the guys that snuck into EN either. Same BS we are discussing here. The health stuff is beyoond most peoples control. I have no knowledge of. The Allen Mill Pond incident. The CCR stuff is something that I don't think we control. They want to use them they roll the dice. I have no good opinions of CCR stuff. Scares the hell out of me. Good enough for ya?

 

[PfcAJ]

The one thing all of those accidents had in common were divers knowingly exceeding the limits of their training. In other words ... those were errors in judgment in which the only responsible parties were the divers themselves.

And as Asimov put it in one of his books ... "against stupidity, the Gods themselves struggle in vain".

Look, I can appreciate your concern ... I share it in a lot of ways with respect to other things I see going on out there ... fresh out of OW divers going solo for example. But I don't blame instructors or equipment configurations for that issue ... it's purely on the shoulders of the individual diver.

They might have known they were diving above their training, but they certainly thought they had enough knowledge to pull it off. Dunning-Kruger at its finest.

Could better training centered on truly developing diver skill and knowledge, augmented by solid equipment/gas choices and dive planning help people out? I certainly think so. I do not think that most cave classes are geared toward that. The end result is someone with a cert card who thinks they are at pretty good, when they aren't. I've seen this first hand on multiple occasions, and its kinda sad and tragic, a little.

 

[Matt S.]

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