General Vortex Incident Discussion

[Cave Diver]

A real optimist. :shocked2:

I give it about 300' past the grate unassisted. After that I would think drag on the tether will stop it.

I'm betting there is no way this thing goes in unassisted. Unless it unspools line as it goes, divers will have to be in the water to keep the tether clear of obstacles and line traps.

I would probably suggesting dropping the whole coil of line at the entrance to the cave with 3-400' sections marked off on the tether and a diver assigned to each section. That would call for 4-5 divers in the water together with it, plus a couple of additional support divers for the deep team.

Should be interesting...

 

[SC_Hoaty]

I hate to tell ya but viz is gonna be one way anyway.

Agreed. One minor advantage of having the power supplied down the tether is unlimited bottom time. It may be possible to "park" and wait out the silting. However, since the tether is pulled along (not deployed from the ROV if I'm remembering VideoRay correctly, and this is a "stock" unit), I agree with Cave Diver that support divers will be needed to manage the tether. Communication with the support dives will be another challenge.

Sure would be fun to see the circus!

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Agreed. One minor advantage of having the power supplied down the tether is unlimited bottom time. It may be possible to "park" and wait out the silting. However, since the tether is pulled along (not deployed from the ROV if I'm remembering VideoRay correctly, and this is a "stock" unit), I agree with Cave Diver that support divers will be needed to manage the tether. Communication with the support dives will be another challenge.

Sure would be fun to see the circus!

Not fun from where I sit. They already know someone is going to have to swim the camera in the small stuff.

 

[SC_Hoaty]

Hope the diving is safe, and uneventful. Is it know if the divers will be "volunteer" cave-certified divers or Public Safety?

 

[Jax]

Someone to swim the camera, some to haul tether, everyone getting silted all to **** because of the draging tether . . . definitely charlie foxtrottery. (CF, to the uninitiated).

I really hate the idea of so many people in a cave diving blind . . . Is it just my imagination? It sounds really dangerous.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Hope the diving is safe, and uneventful. Is it know if the divers will be "volunteer" cave-certified divers or Public Safety?

Well, Publis safety divers can't go in caves unless cave trained if that answers your question.

 

[SC_Hoaty]

Well, Publis safety divers can't go in caves unless cave trained if that answers your question.

Sort of. It seems Vortex hasn't been too particular about cave certs until you hit the grate. Wasn't sure how far this attitude had infected the planning. It would seem difficult to recruit volunteers to tend the tether in an anticipated silt-out. I wasn't sure if some of the divers were not being compelled as part of their job (like Public Safety). I presume some subset of Public Safety divers have cave certs.

 

[Jax]

Sort of. It seems Vortex hasn't been too particular about cave certs until you hit the grate. Wasn't sure how far this attitude had infected the planning. It would seem difficult to recruit volunteers to tend the tether in an anticipated silt-out. I wasn't sure if some of the divers were not being compelled as part of their job (like Public Safety). I presume some subset of Public Safety divers have cave certs.

:huh: I don't think this is a 'sort of', nor would Vortex have the say.

I believe it would be a Public Safety policy, more than anything. Can you imagine the outcry if they were to send a PS diver into an environment for which s/he was not trained?

 

[mike_s]

Can you imagine the outcry if they were to send a PS diver into an environment for which s/he was not trained?

happens all the time.

a lot of divers who "volunteer" as public safety divers don't have any form public diver safey training. They just like to be part of the dive team and "get the t-shirt" and "sticker for their truck".

our local "dive team" is part of a volunter "rescue squad". They do a good job of towing in boats that run out of gas, but they have no business going into some of the dive situations they attempt. Luckily they aren't required as divers much.

their Dive Team leader told a local instructor a year or two ago that "I'd like to get with you about getting my Advanced Open Water". He doesn't have any training beyond Open Water and pretty much neither does most of the rest of the team.

but yet they like building out a cool dive trailer and bought a cool $180k dive/resuce boat. I mean it's important to look good with buying stuff with public funds and donations. but none of them will take the time to go through advanced recreational training, much less formal Public Safety Diver training.

go figure. I guess it was all about the t-shirt.

 

[Jax]

happens all the time.

a lot of divers who "volunteer" as public safety divers don't have any form public diver safey training. They just like to be part of the dive team and "get the t-shirt" and "sticker for their truck".

our local "dive team" is part of a volunter "rescue squad". They do a good job of towing in boats that run out of gas, but they have no business going into some of the dive situations they attempt. Luckily they aren't required as divers much.

their Dive Team leader told a local instructor a year or two ago that "I'd like to get with you about getting my Advanced Open Water". He doesn't have any training beyond Open Water and pretty much neither does most of the rest of the team.

but yet they like building out a cool dive trailer and bought a cool $180k dive/resuce boat. I mean it's important to look good with buying stuff with public funds and donations. but none of them will take the time to go through advanced recreational training, much less formal Public Safety Diver training.

go figure. I guess it was all about the t-shirt.

That's a shame. Our S&R dive team does training every other week in the summer, and once a month in the winter. They also train with TUS & PHX. I think they have to have AOW . . . not sure, but our LDS is a member and their instructor, so their skills and training are up to date.

There's also a national competition, and the Cochise County folks Tether Team won first in Nation, while the underwater team got like 3rd or something. They take it seriously.

And then, there's the dog team . . . just cool.