Fundies kicked my a$$

[Mossman]

I've edited this several times. I did come up with quite a long post attempting to help you understand that what you believe is simply untrue, but then I realised that I'd be wasting my time. You've made up your mind, and you're clearly not about to let little things like "facts", "truth" or "the real world" get in the way of your passionately held beliefs. Given your "it's a cult" argument, I think my irony gland just exploded.

This is a genuine shame, as people might read this thread and actually believe some of the poison you are spouting. If you have no interest in GUE or DIR, then where does the passion for spreading mistruths about it come from. Why not just giggle at our innocence / naivete and move on. Meanwhile we'll keep happily recreational diving DIR, which seems to work just fine once you're not on the internet.

I am giggling at your customers' innocence and naivete. You make money from it, so we'll consider your opinion a bit biased

Don't worry about me scaring any customers away, however. No matter how much religion is debunked by science, there will always be Catholics and Hare Krishnas.

 

[formula1mb@aol.com]

I don't have to taste Limberger cheese to know I don't like it.

That's a pretty poor analogy IMHO. You've never had something that you hated at first or took time to grow on you? Something that if you never gave it a chance you would have never discovered? Good example is the first time someone tries beer and/or wine------normal reaction is ugggghhh this is disgusting! How can anyone like it or even love it? Funny enough though after a while and couple more tries, most adults I know really end up liking it very much

About my background, still a new diver, about 80 dives over approximately two years all locally in California. I did just take a Fundies class last month and have to agree it is a fantastic class in terms of simply helping you put everything together and feeling more confident in your abilities. Things like being able to position yourself without struggling, planning your reserves properly (although I was fairly confident in that aspect, still learned about different strategies like all usable, rules of thirds and halfs), and simply drilling enough where you don't even hesitant to respond to an emergency like OOA. One dive about a year ago, I did in fact have an OOA where my partner didn't turn her tank on all the way and luckily my third dive partner was able to help her in time-----however it did freak me out a bit and if that were to happen now, I would be much less hesitant and afraid to act.

On the other hand, would I say I'm a 100% DIR diver now? Nah, I'm still interested in other types of diving in the future like sidemount and who knows maybe even rebreathers down the line. Plus I have gone solo diving a handful of times so definitely not DIR. But also I have no regrets taking the class and the best I've taken so far and who knows, down the line maybe even take more depending on how things go (also no I didn't pass, got fairly close but only a provisional for now and still have some things to work on). Even though I didn't pass no regrets at all about taking it.

Making pre-mature judgements without first hand knowledge is never a wise thing in my book or as the old saying goes, 'don't knock it till you try it'.

Robert

 

[dbulmer]

Mossman,
Gareth was not my Fundies instructor but I have met him. He was helping out other divers and he did not care less what their affiliation was. He's a good bloke - and your remark says a lot about you.

 

[Cave Diver]

If they don't care, they're not really DIR. I apparently have a much better understanding of DIR than anyone here.

:worship:

 

[Mossman]

Mossman,
Gareth was not my Fundies instructor but I have met him. He was helping out other divers and he did not care less what their affiliation was. He's a good bloke - and your remark says a lot about you.

I'm sure he's a great bloke. That doesn't mean blokes can't be biased.

Limberger cheese smells. I'd rather eat at one of the free Hare Krishna vegetarian dinners.

 

[ScubaSteve]

OK......I believe this now applies......(you may choose to substitute "stupid" for "ignorant" but the pic came prefabricated)

 

[dbulmer]

Instructors for a professional organisation will demonstrate a bias for the organisation that they represent. Understandable, is it not? Does that taint their views in any way? Gareth was helping people out a long time before he committed himself to the GUE agency.

The naive and innocent constitute a significant majority of the diving population - it's the reason why we have instructors - the question is how naive and innocent can you afford to be before it bites you in the rear end?

 

[Leejnd]

I apparently have a much better understanding of DIR than anyone here.

Okay, now I truly do give up. I really have been trying to understand your mindset, and pass on to you some facts that I happen to know about what's actually taught in these classes, that someone who hasn't taken the class wouldn't know. I've really been trying to have a conversation with you which could enlighten both of us, as well as new divers who might be reading this thread. I've really been trying to maintain my respect for you.

But now I realize that none of that is possible, for one simple reason: you claim to know more about something that you have never even experienced first-hand, than those of us who HAVE experienced it. That is just an untenable position, and one that I cannot respect. It's untenable in ANY context...and it's simply impossible to have an intelligent conversation with someone who claims to know things that he cannot possibly know, while telling those of us who DO know...who have EXPERIENCED it...that WE are wrong and HE is right.

You keep saying things that I know for a fact are flat-out untrue. You keep being told these facts by people who actually HAVE experience in it (taken the classes or, in some cases, TAUGHT the classes), and yet you refuse to accept what they are telling you. These are not just opinions...they are FACTS. It's like trying to have a debate with a dedicated conspiracy theorist. It reminds me of an argument I got into recently with a guy who is a died-in-the-wool birther: he simply will not accept that Obama was born in the US, in spite of the incontrovertible FACTS that prove he was. He kept bringing up long-ago-debunked arguments, things that have been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be untrue, and simply would not listen to the FACTS. I gave up. That was when I learned that some people simply are unable to relinquish their beliefs, even when faced with FACTS that prove them wrong. If anything is "cult-like" or "religion-like", it's that. It's the type of attitude that I see in rabid fundamentalists who are convinced beyond all reason that they and ONLY they are right, and everybody else is wrong and is going to hell.

I am happy that I am not like that. I pride myself on having an open mind to learning new things...even if something I learn causes me to change a strongly held viewpoint. There are many times in my life when I have been a staunch believer about something, only to learn a new fact that changed my mind. That is not a sign of weakness - it's a sign of strength. It shows that you are willing to face reality, not stick your fingers in your ears and say "NAH NAH NAH NAH stop talking this is what I believe and I don't care what anyone says!" Because that is what it looks to all of us like what you are doing.

I realize now that there is no point in continuing to try to tell you FACTS that contradict what you believe. If you believed that Tinkerbell was the President of the United States, Obama himself couldn't get you to believe that it's really him...even though he personally lives in the White House and, y'know, knows more about it than you.

There are two things that bother me the most about your position, and your posts:

1) You are essentially calling all of us liars, to our faces. We're telling you it's like this, and you're saying "no it's like that". So...are we lying? That is a rather bizarre debate tactic.

2) Just because you disagree with OUR choice in dive philosophies...just because it's not YOUR choice...you feel that it's okay to belittle, denigrate, demean and (your word) "mock" those of us who've chosen this one. That is, indisputably, rude and obnoxious. I simply cannot respect someone who does that. It's okay to disagree - but why the hostility and rudeness? Why the mocking? Why not just say "good for you, that's not MY choice, I prefer this style, but I hope you have a great dive." Because guess what? That's what I hear all the DIR divers saying!

I will now check out of this discussion (with you anyway). You have made it clear you believe what you believe, and nothing that we say has any effect on you. So there's clearly not much point in saying anything to you at all.

 

[Cave Diver]

So there's clearly not much point in saying anything to you at all.

Too late!

 

[ScubaSteve]

Mossman is doing nothing more than trolling. This reminds me of many conversations in the ABC forum. Keep up the good work Mossman.