Fundamentals 1 & 2?

[elgoog]

Wifebuddy and I completed the classroom and pool portion of Fundies 1 last night. Here's a little bit of info from our class.
Equipment configuration, pre-dive drills, team communication started us off (very briefly went over gas planning, min gas, ascent strategies, min deco - the meat of it is in Fundies 2 but we had a little time before the pool opened and it was helpful to get the gist of these topics and some tables+numbers we could use). In water, it's exclusively trim, buoyancy and propulsion with basic 5 thrown in for minimal task loading.
As far as certification, there isn't any requirement to complete Fundies 2 within a certain period of time after Fundies 1. Also, you can switch gear between the 2, eg: change from wetsuit to drysuit. This requires a check out dive with your instructor to make sure you're good to go with the change. You can do the corresponding primers for the new gear but it's not required. You do get certified as Fundies 1 but the only GUE course that has that as a pre-requisite is Fundies 2. Everything else requires full Fundies.

I'm also going to wholeheartedly endorse the decision to split Fundies this way. Based on our extremely tiring, frustrating and demoralizing pool sessions, I would probably have quit if I was in full Fundies as there is no way I would have been able to proceed with the remaining skills in any meaningful fashion. For a diver at my level, I definitely felt like I was in over my head - even wifebuddy was not a happy camper. This is not at all a knock on our instructor (Beto, who was absolutely fantastic) or the GUE style, but I was questioning why I wanted to do this style of diving. More than a few times.
Anyhoo, didn't mean to derail this thread - after our ocean dives on Jul 26, I might post about our experiences in the class overall. That's assuming I'll still want to keep diving and have a reason to log in to SB

 

[cerich]

and at one time there was not even Fundies, Just Tech 1,2,3 and Cave 1,2,3,

Then SCR for the Fridge which you needed to be tech 2 to take

I just read the new standards - Fundies still exists, but they've also added Fundies 1 and 2 as additional options. Like Lynn mentioned, it appears to be for instructors who prefer to break the course into two parts for scheduling, or to provide students more opportunity to digest the material.

The split is mostly logical - Fundies 1 focuses on GUE team skills, gear setup, pre-dive drills, propulsion techniques and basic 5. It's basically the GUE Primer course (which was dropped from this version of the standards). Fundies 2 adds the swim test, s-drill, valve drill and smb deployment -the stressful stuff. Nitrox doesn't come until Fundies 2 now, which I suppose makes sense. No need to clog up the 2 day Fundies 1 course with the nitrox, gas management and min-deco presentations.

If the goal is to increase pass rates and reduce diver stress, it's a damn fine idea. Most of the students that I've observed failed Fundies because they lacked the basic stable platform necessary to successfully perform the basic 5 and drills. I've observed too many Fundies classes where it became painfully obvious on day 2 that no one would pass, but there wasn't really a remedy other than to have the students go back and practice the basics, then attempt the course again. So that leaves what - 40% of the course as being useful, and 60% being overwhelming? One of my buddies (who claims to have failed more GUE courses than anyone else on the planet) refers to the courses as evaluations, because he's never felt like there was enough time for him to learn the new skills before he was being asked to perform at a (relatively) high level of competency. And when the courses are expensive and difficult to schedule... that's a problem.

The two day Fundies 1 course has the potential to fix those issues by shifting the focus entirely to just being comfortable and stable in a gear configuration that may be unfamiliar, and learning the basics of propulsion techniques that may likewise be a new experience. If the students pick it up successfully - great; on to Fundies 2, where the skills become difficult and nearly impossible to perform successfully without a strong foundation. This seems to remove the pressure and stress of days 3-5 by allowing more time for platform development before attempting the most difficult portions of the course. That's probably a good thing - 5 days is not enough time for most divers to make such a profound shift in their diving habits.

On the other side of the coin... I do think there's a real danger in having it segmented so much - what used to be a single class (Fundies) has now become 4 - Fundies 1 (Primer), Drysuit, Doubles, Fundies 2 (Fundies), and if you add in Rec 2/3, there are now 6 possible classes to teach where there used to be two (Fundies/Tech 1). I see a couple of problems with this: Mostly, it's in the instructor's best financial interest to have more low-quality students vs fewer, high-quality students. That can create a situation where mentors are a threat to the instructor, as mentoring may eliminate the need for preparatory or remedial courses. We'll know it's happened when a mentor gets a tongue lashing for showing a fellow diver how to properly use a long-hose...

Ultimately, I'm all for whatever changes result in there being a larger pool of competent and passionate potential dive buddies. It's probably a step in the right direction.

 

[victorzamora]

Wifebuddy and I completed the classroom and pool portion of Fundies 1 last night. Here's a little bit of info from our class.
Equipment configuration, pre-dive drills, team communication started us off (very briefly went over gas planning, min gas, ascent strategies, min deco - the meat of it is in Fundies 2 but we had a little time before the pool opened and it was helpful to get the gist of these topics and some tables+numbers we could use). In water, it's exclusively trim, buoyancy and propulsion with basic 5 thrown in for minimal task loading.
As far as certification, there isn't any requirement to complete Fundies 2 within a certain period of time after Fundies 1. Also, you can switch gear between the 2, eg: change from wetsuit to drysuit. This requires a check out dive with your instructor to make sure you're good to go with the change. You can do the corresponding primers for the new gear but it's not required. You do get certified as Fundies 1 but the only GUE course that has that as a pre-requisite is Fundies 2. Everything else requires full Fundies.

I'm also going to wholeheartedly endorse the decision to split Fundies this way. Based on our extremely tiring, frustrating and demoralizing pool sessions, I would probably have quit if I was in full Fundies as there is no way I would have been able to proceed with the remaining skills in any meaningful fashion. For a diver at my level, I definitely felt like I was in over my head - even wifebuddy was not a happy camper. This is not at all a knock on our instructor (Beto, who was absolutely fantastic) or the GUE style, but I was questioning why I wanted to do this style of diving. More than a few times.
Anyhoo, didn't mean to derail this thread - after our ocean dives on Jul 26, I might post about our experiences in the class overall. That's assuming I'll still want to keep diving and have a reason to log in to SB

Is the assumption that you'll be taking Fundies 2 soon? Are you even planning on taking Fundies2? I'm wondering if they'll update pre-reqs to require both levels of Fundies (or say that "Fundies" means both?).

 

[KevinNM]

and at one time there was not even Fundies, Just Tech 1,2,3 and Cave 1,2,3,

I understand that originally fundamentals was an optional course you could take prior to the tech/cave courses to get your skills up to speed if you needed it. Then instructors found they were getting far too many students who both hadn't taken fundamentals and were seriously lacking skills that were needed for the intro tech/cave courses, so it was made mandatory.

---------- Post added July 15th, 2015 at 02:27 PM ----------

I'm also going to wholeheartedly endorse the decision to split Fundies this way. Based on our extremely tiring, frustrating and demoralizing pool sessions, I would probably have quit if I was in full Fundies as there is no way I would have been able to proceed with the remaining skills in any meaningful fashion. For a diver at my level, I definitely felt like I was in over my head - even wifebuddy was not a happy camper. This is not at all a knock on our instructor (Beto, who was absolutely fantastic) or the GUE style, but I was questioning why I wanted to do this style of diving. More than a few times.

Yeah, I took primer (which is essentially F1) and it was a lot of work. I took 4 months between primer and fundamentals. Fundamentals was still very hard and highly frustrating at times, but it would have been really, really hard and frustrating without primer.

 

[elgoog]

Is the assumption that you'll be taking Fundies 2 soon?

Not for us. Our instructor didn't specify any time frame that F2 has to be done in after F1. He said that if you change any gear, he would like to do a check dive or an informal pool session to make sure fit and weighting is good in the new config. I think the reason for this is that they are still working out how to conduct Fundies 2 as a standalone and whether there will be a pool day for it at all or not.

Are you even planning on taking Fundies2?

If you would have asked me this before we started Fundies 1, I would have said "yes", emphatically. And change from wetsuit to drysuit.
Last night after our 2nd pool session, we were just about to ready to run over all our dive gear with the truck.
This morning, we're back to a "yes" and still aim to do it in a drysuit. The difference is that we most likely need more dives and practice between the two than we'd originally thought.

I'm wondering if they'll update pre-reqs to require both levels of Fundies (or say that "Fundies" means both?).

So, there is no Fundies 2 cert - it's just called Fundies cert. This could be doing the full Fundies class like there was before or doing 1 and 2 separately with some gap in between. What I'm not sure about is for those who did Primer when it still existed, if they'll be allowed to test out to Fundies 2 directly or they have to do 1+2 or the full class.

 

[WhiteSands]

Not for us. Our instructor didn't specify any time frame that F2 has to be done in after F1. He said that if you change any gear, he would like to do a check dive or an informal pool session to make sure fit and weighting is good in the new config. I think the reason for this is that they are still working out how to conduct Fundies 2 as a standalone and whether there will be a pool day for it at all or not.


If you would have asked me this before we started Fundies 1, I would have said "yes", emphatically. And change from wetsuit to drysuit.
Last night after our 2nd pool session, we were just about to ready to run over all our dive gear with the truck.
This morning, we're back to a "yes" and still aim to do it in a drysuit. The difference is that we most likely need more dives and practice between the two than we'd originally thought.


So, there is no Fundies 2 cert - it's just called Fundies cert. This could be doing the full Fundies class like there was before or doing 1 and 2 separately with some gap in between. What I'm not sure about is for those who did Primer when it still existed, if they'll be allowed to test out to Fundies 2 directly or they have to do 1+2 or the full class.

Don't give up. Keep at it. Some people, with their natural abilities, prior training etc. get it quickly. Others need a lot more time and hard work, but you will get there eventually, if you don't give up.

 

[PfcAJ]

Don't give up. Keep at it. Some people, with their natural abilities, prior training etc. get it quickly. Others need a lot more time and hard work, but you will get there eventually, if you don't give up.

+1

hard work and perseverance = success

 

[Beiji]

Now why would Beiji need another Fundies tech pass?

I'm flattered that you think I have a tech pass! Thank you! Although I did the class in a drysuit and doubles, I got a rec pass, and given the challenges I faced in class, I was very happy to get it. Now after two years of working on my skills, I may try to upgrade this summer.

For Elgoog, I'm with all the others who are saying "Don't give up!" It is so worth all the hard work and tears!

 

[VR78]

I'm also going to wholeheartedly endorse the decision to split Fundies this way. Based on our extremely tiring, frustrating and demoralizing pool sessions, I would probably have quit if I was in full Fundies as there is no way I would have been able to proceed with the remaining skills

Based on my experience with Fundies - taken a month ago as one chunk over 4.5 days - I must say I do disagree. This was a boot camp sort of training and as such it certainly benefited from a certain consistent and prolonged stress and pressure. It was a lot of fun, too. I don't think I would have succeeded had this class been split into more "manageable" chunks as the entire atmosphere and approach would feel more relaxed and less demanding. To me, the stress level was the key to success. I must say though that taking the class some place far away from home/work/family/internet access etc. helped a lot.

Classes generally went from 8 am to 8 pm, and looking at my log I see that we've made nine pool dives lasting from 15 to 50 min and five OW dives at around 15-25 min each. Total time in the water was six hours. My buddy dived a single tank rig and received a Rec pass, and I aimed for and received a Tech pass. To me, the team work aspects of the class were the biggest challenge.

 

[Bak]

Some people will prefer the split class, some will do better with the single one. It's nice having both available now.By the way Spliting doesn't mean more relaxed...a GUE Instructor can crank your stress level on one dive easy.....