Free Speech and Moderation: from Filmmaker Rob Stewart dies off Alligator Reef

[rossh]

Rubbish. This is simply not true and you have impugned Dr. Mitchell's integrity over and over again and constantly call him names. We don't censor your POV, but we do censor your loutish attempts to bully him and call names. It's one thing to have a POV, yet quite another to be a POV Warrior, inserting that POV in threads that have nothing to do with it. You've pretty much destroyed your credibility in these threads. It's embarrassing to watch you do it over and over again, but you refuse to learn. You possess one of the highest Reported post counts on the board, if not the highest.

I suppose you think its OK for him to launch ad hominem attacks on me, my business, my intentions, my integrity, inserting straw man made up quotations and other endless malicious efforts against me, or to let him encourage others to do the same (and worse) against me, without any fear of reprisals. I guess you do think this one sided show is allowable, because that's what happens almost every time now. Half your mod team is predisposed towards that end already, which is why they now fall foul of the Free speech and censorship ideals your board is promoting.

And when I call him out on doing those things, and when I show he is misreporting matters in physics, math and science, quoting out of context, and falsely attacking existing models and science, then evidently this discussion of facts, concepts, model math and so on, and the necessary corrections, is not allowed. Instead it gets falsely deemed to all personal attacks on my part, which it clearly is not.

Mitchell's integrity is of his own undoing. He is posting on a public forum, outside the normal science channels and promoting his own ideas and interpretations. He clearly has an agenda, and gets caught out when he becomes over zealous in its promotion.

I have no need to do childish name calling and I think you are being unrealistic on that point.

Pete, these excuses you offer here, is turned into masquerading under false pretenses, to prevent me from posting on numerous topics, and then that makes way for SB promote a one sided view to the exclusion of all else.


You have said it yourself to me in a PM..... protecting Mitchell's reputation on SB is a priority above all else. If we users are not allowed to post a different opinion to his, or to challenge or discuss his concepts and topics, then by definition, you have censored and restricted free speech and the flow of opposing ideas.

Cheers.

 

[Storker]

I suppose you think its OK for him to launch ad hominem attacks on me, my business, my intentions, my integrity, inserting straw man made up quotations and other endless malicious efforts against me, or to let him encourage others to do the same (and worse) against me, without any fear of reprisals. I guess you do think this one sided show is allowable, because that's what happens almost every time now. Half your mod team is predisposed towards that end already, which is why they now fall foul of the Free speech and censorship ideals your board is promoting.

And when I call him out on doing those things, and when I show he is misreporting matters in physics, math and science, quoting out of context, and falsely attacking existing models and science, then evidently this discussion of facts, concepts, model math and so on, and the necessary corrections, is not allowed. Instead it gets falsely deemed to all personal attacks on my part, which it clearly is not.

Mitchell's integrity is of his own undoing. He is posting on a public forum, outside the normal science channels and promoting his own ideas and interpretations. He clearly has an agenda, and gets caught out when he becomes over zealous in its promotion.

I have no need to do childish name calling and I think you are being unrealistic on that point.

Pete, these excuses you offer here, is turned into masquerading under false pretenses, to prevent me from posting on numerous topics, and then that makes way for SB promote a one sided view to the exclusion of all else.


You have said it yourself to me in a PM..... protecting Mitchell's reputation on SB is a priority above all else. If we users are not allowed to post a different opinion to his, or to challenge or discuss his concepts and topics, then by definition, you have censored and restricted free speech and the flow of opposing ideas.

Cheers.

This is... an interesting representation of rossh's case. At least it is to me.

Or, to put it more bluntly: It's either a collection of some of the most blatant lies I've read for quite a while, or it's completely delusional. I don't know which.

 

[The Chairman]

and other endless malicious efforts against me

We call them facts, Ross. We call them facts. Disagreements are not ad hominems. Saying that you're wrong is not an insult. Dr. Mitchell refutes your assertions and assumptions with facts without resorting to name calling or casting aspersions. It's not his fault that you want to dismiss those inconvenient facts and it's sad that the discussion seems so one sided.

You have said it yourself to me in a PM..... protecting Mitchell's reputation on SB is a priority above all else.

Rubbish. Please present this PM for everyone to see. Just because you say it's so, doesn't make it so.

Here's the beauty of ScubaBoard. If someone comes on spewing nonsense, they are generally handed their ass to them in a nice way. Rumors don't cut it because people are not only allowed, but rather encouraged to prove what they say. Incredible claims require incredible proof. It's not always possible to do that as some of us are given info that we are allowed to publish but not to reveal our sources. You do have to figure out who you can trust. There are lots of rumor mongers out there, but they rarely get on ScubaBoard. They stick to the springs, homes, and docks where they won't be called out for their blarney.

 

[Schwob]

Guys, as much as I would be siding with the mods here, this thread is sinking lower and lower in the mud. On both sides that is. One side we learned we cannot expect better from. The mod side, I have to say, surprises me bit negatively. Just to be clear rossh, imho you are still horribly wrong and the next paragraph here is not meant to imply that I think otherwise in any whichever way. Similar (imho) to DrBen. So here it goes, for what its worth:

Mods c'mon, you lost that high road and let those two guys get to you. As understandable as that is... and it really is, find that high road again! Will you?

 

[rossh]

For the benefit of those not familiar with the rossh trainwrecks:

On numerous (EDIT: virtually countless) occasions, one person has accused another thread participant of ulterior motives, dishonesty, fakery and lies. The person who was accused is a highly respected, publicly employed scientist. In science, lies and fakery is the deadliest sin there is (quite unlike politics or advertising, but I'm digressing). Thus, accusing a scientist of lying, fakery, undisclosed conflict of interest or ulterior motives is the ultimate personal attack. It's an attack on the scientist's integrity, their most valuable asset in their professional life.

It seems as if one of the participants in this thread still - after repeated moderation and counselling - is totally unable to comprehend this rather simple fact.

And... have any of you dis-proven my contentions, my demonstrated science, math, and other supporting data, that shows his attacks on VPM, models, deco, VGE and all the rest of it..... have any of you shown why my reasoning and criticism of Mitchell presentations and concepts on those topics was invalid???? Answer No.



Instead we have mods like Storker here, all from the academic fields, who absolutely follow the academia hierarchy to the exclusion of all else. To the Storker types, Mitchell must automatically be correct because he is credentialed. Under that view point, anyone who dares rock the academia boat, must be doing it for personal reasons, and all outsiders must be deemed wrong.


But what if is not correct??? The storker's of the world would never know it, or admit to it - because they are not interested in the content of the discussion.

If the man uses home made fabricated measures, and non science tools and comparisons with little or no science validity, then that would be...... what?


I'm being punished for telling it like it really is, and the storkers of the world are too busy worshiping the system to notice. I get censored, deleted, and ridiculed for posting about science and data and math, etc, and falsely accused it some stupid childish name calling game.

.
later

 

[RainPilot]

Guys, as much as I would be siding with the mods here, this thread is sinking lower and lower in the mud. On both sides that is. One side we learned we cannot expect better from. The mod side, I have to say, surprises me bit negatively. Just to be clear rossh, imho you are still horribly wrong and the next paragraph here is not meant to imply that I think otherwise in any whichever way. Similar (imho) to DrBen. So here it goes, for what its worth:

Mods c'mon, you lost that high road and let those two guys get to you. As understandable as that is... and it really is, find that high road again! Will you?

I’m afraid I am guilty of this. As we have said countless times, we are all human.

I would like to apologise for my transgressions in this thread. Specifically, I would like to apologise to @rossh Dragging up previous issues should have been beneath me but somehow today it wasn’t.

@Doc Ben I am sorry if my posts about “FNG” etc came across as belittling or disrespectful. I have been referring to myself as the FNG in so many contexts for so many years that I forgot that it might not carry over the way it was meant. I sincerely do hope that you have a long and happy time on this board, bumpy start notwithstanding.

@Schwob thanks for your post. You were 100% right in my case and I’m glad you pointed it out. As far as the rest of this thread goes, I will read it because that’s my job, I will answer direct questions because that’s polite but otherwise I’m out.

To all the regular users, thanks for your continued support and feedback, it is much appreciated.

 

[RainPilot]

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[kelemvor]

Why not hit the report button and ask that it be moved back privately rather than making it a public deal? That and by the time he had posted his complaint, they had found their way back to the original thread. Patience is a virtue few seem to have time for.

To reiterate: if you believe someone's post violates the ToS: report it. Don't publicly denounce the offence, but rather, let the mods do their job. In addition, if you feel that your post has inadvertently been included in a mass move: report it. We all make mistakes and would rather handle this privately than have them decried publicly. Finally, if you disagree with the moderation or have questions in a thread and feel the need to discuss it: take it to Site Support. It doesn't belong in the thread.

You know, that is an interesting point that maybe you should make more frequently. I say that because until I read this I though that reporting something was far more severe a reaction than commenting about something. It would have seemed like a logical first step to mention something in the thread before involving "the man."

 

[scubadada]

No I certainly won't. Hostile?? Your opinion. I was reluctant to join in the first place with all the blaring ads in my face and when I finally did, I wanted to read through the dialog but saw many had MOD POST and who knows what was removed. Of course the MODs will say it violated the TOS, but without seeing it, I can only take their word. It was very time consuming to read through 800 plus posts to get at the real info so made a plea to preserve the whole thread. One of the main weaknesses of this SB is to force us to sift through page by page to get at real info (according to me of course). This is my explanation...take it for what you want. There are LOTS of other places to get info and not too sure I will hang in here. Nearly all my dive buddies on the West Coast bailed out on SB. They said most of the posts come from the good ole boys on the East Coast...that seems to be the case. Perhaps that is a business opportunity to compete!!

Perhaps you ought to bail too, to one of the many scuba forums where you can post without control or comment. You don't seem to be at all happy here. I don't get your comment regarding the East and West coast.

 

[Storker]

You know, that is an interesting point that maybe you should make more frequently. I say that because until I read this I though that reporting something was far more severe a reaction than commenting about something. It would have seemed like a logical first step to mention something in the thread before involving "the man."

It's interesting that you mention "the man". Here on SB, "the man" is simply a bunch of guys (in the gender-neutral meaning of "guy") who for some weird reason has been considered level-headed enough to enforce the ToS in a decent manner. As @The Chairman says, moderation here on SB is reactive rather than proactive. The mods don't (and don't have time to) scan threads to look for stuff to moderate. Every report is considered, but far from all are acted upon. In quite a few cases, the report is dismissed with no action taken, but the mods still are grateful for those reports. Because reports mean that the forum members care and prefer a forum that enforces the rules laid down in the ToS.

The norm is that every report should receive a reply no matter the outcome, but since the mods are a bunch of fallible humans, it may happen that a report is dismissed without feedback to the reporter. When that happens, it's of course regrettable, but stuff happens. Despite the mod corps' attempts to avoid that.