Force Fins vs Jetfins - tek diving and all the kicks

[dmaziuk]

I don't know where anyone is coming up with the $1500 price tag for Tan Delta material Force Fins (except for the one's for sale on ebay).
Excellerating Force Fins, with whiskers, bungie heel staps and comfort inserts (the highest priced model) , sell for $800 from Force Fins, when they are available.

Precisely. When they're available now, asking price is $1500. When they're available "soon" then we'll see the price tag. But even for $400 I'd rather buy a travel bp&w and a pair of cheap fins -- despite the fact that FF is the only open heel fin I know of that fits my hobbit feet.

 

[TN Traveler]

Precisely. When they're available now, asking price is $1500. When they're available "soon" then we'll see the price tag. But even for $400 I'd rather buy a travel bp&w and a pair of cheap fins -- despite the fact that FF is the only open heel fin I know of that fits my hobbit feet.

We all are free to make choices -

 

[Yoyodyne-88]

My 20 year old FF-pros are great for travel, easy to pack and can be used barefoot (with the inserts) for snorkling, or with cold water booties, or my DUI drysuit feet. Plus you can even walk in them on the dock or beach, to a degree.

As for softness versus "power" - a jet fin may give you a fast burst across the pool, but my experience is that in a half-mile slog against the current, I can stiil be pumping the Force fins long after a stiff fin would have cramped me up.

 

[scubadada]

I will bet that you will spend $800 for a reg set that barely performs better than a $400 reg and that you will replace in 3-4 years but you think spending $450-$700 for a set of fins that will perform better, cause less fatigue and last a lifetime is expensive. The only fins that will last as long as Force Fins are rubber Jet Fins - that cause all sorts of leg/ankle/hip problems (unless ALL you do id frog kick).

I am not sure I understand the basis for your comment/logic???

TN Traveler,

Don't go making assumptions to support your view. My original 1970 Scubapro MK5/109 is still in use on my pony. My 2001 MK25/G250HP is used by my son on his pony. I now dive a 2012 MK25/S600 and will not replace for it the foreseeable future, if ever. My 2006 BC is going strong. Perhaps your example of regulator buying fits you better than it fits me.

Out of curiosity, I bought a pair of Pro Force Fins in 2004 or 2005 at a very low price, on sale, from an online source. I tried them numerous times but they simply did not match my style of diving. I use frog kick the majority of the time and frequently use other alternative kicks. I rarely flutter kick. I've only owned two other pairs of fins since 2001, my Dive Rite XTs seem to be the perfect fin for me, powerful and comfortable.

The discussions concerning Force Fins often seem religious in tone, either you believe or you don't. At least I gave them a valid try. I'm glad they are good for you.

Good diving, Craig

 

[TN Traveler]

Craig

If you primarily Frog Kick - Original Force Fins or Pros are not the best fins - in fact, I would never recommend them for that type of diving. What people have to realize is there are several models of fins that are made by Force Fin and if you choose the right model - they outperform other fins. It takes gaining some knowledge to determine the proper style and material for the type of diving you do. Nothing "religious" about it - just when you get educated, you hate to hear people make false/misleading comments.

If you look at my picture - I still dive a 1959 Double Hose US Divers Mistral that I used when I got certified. I own 3 vintage double hose regs, a ScubaPro Mk5/109 and a bunch of Mares Regs (from Abyss Titanium to Carbon 42) that range from 20 years old 4 years old. I own 2 Oxycheq wings - a 30# extreme (8 years old) and a 18# travel wing (5 years old). I am not one to change gear frequently or recommend it.

As far as Force Fins - I own a variety, each for a specific purpose. I could spend a lot of time explaining each of my choices and their uses but suffice it to say, I like having the proper tool for the job at hand (and to be honest, the only time I dive my Pros or Foils is when I am having knee/hip problems and can't frog kick).

All I ever try to do is educate - as a scientist/engineer, I have a great problem with people making false statements. If you state that Force Fin Pros don't work for me because I like to Frog Kick - I can totally agree; but if you say in general the Force Fins can't be used for Frog Kicks or other alternate kicks (and have never tried them), then I will argue that statement because there are Force Fin models that WILL do those kicks extremely well.

As far as price, each individual has to determine the value of a fin; but those that rip Force Fins on price without trying them, are basically showing their ignorance (not that you did that). If you give them a fair chance and find they do not provide you with sufficient value, I have no problem with that.

 

[scubadada]

Craig

If you primarily Frog Kick - Original Force Fins or Pros are not the best fins - in fact, I would never recommend them for that type of diving. What people have to realize is there are several models of fins that are made by Force Fin and if you choose the right model - they outperform other fins. It takes gaining some knowledge to determine the proper style and material for the type of diving you do. Nothing "religious" about it - just when you get educated, you hate to hear people make false/misleading comments.

If you look at my picture - I still dive a 1959 Double Hose US Divers Mistral that I used when I got certified. I own 3 vintage double hose regs, a ScubaPro Mk5/109 and a bunch of Mares Regs (from Abyss Titanium to Carbon 42) that range from 20 years old 4 years old. I own 2 Oxycheq wings - a 30# extreme (8 years old) and a 18# travel wing (5 years old). I am not one to change gear frequently or recommend it.

As far as Force Fins - I own a variety, each for a specific purpose. I could spend a lot of time explaining each of my choices and their uses but suffice it to say, I like having the proper tool for the job at hand (and to be honest, the only time I dive my Pros or Foils is when I am having knee/hip problems and can't frog kick).

All I ever try to do is educate - as a scientist/engineer, I have a great problem with people making false statements. If you state that Force Fin Pros don't work for me because I like to Frog Kick - I can totally agree; but if you say in general the Force Fins can't be used for Frog Kicks or other alternate kicks (and have never tried them), then I will argue that statement because there are Force Fin models that WILL do those kicks extremely well.

As far as price, each individual has to determine the value of a fin; but those that rip Force Fins on price without trying them, are basically showing their ignorance (not that you did that). If you give them a fair chance and find they do not provide you with sufficient value, I have no problem with that.

You have a considerably higher investment in fins, in fact, in all your equipment, than I do. My Dive Rite XTs, $130, suit me for all my diving needs. Our requirements are very different, we will leave it at that.

 

[TN Traveler]

I also have 6 divers in my family - hence lots of equipment (plus much of it was bought cheap when a local dive shop closed).

And it is true, I have lots invested in fins but when you live with hip/leg/ankle problems, you spend $$ if you want to keep diving.

As I said in Post #52

"We all are free to make choices -

" and I don't believe mine are better than anyone else's and as long as you are happy with yours, I am happy for you.

 

[scubadada]

I only have 4 divers in my family, we're all well equipped, I could stock a small shop. Good luck to you

 

[dmaziuk]

The discussions concerning Force Fins often seem religious in tone, either you believe or you don't.

The "super-effective but you need to use the special proper technique" sales pitch is not unique to FF, I'm pretty sure I've seen it attached to split fins too. The funny part is they all seem to invariably describe the proper technique for front crawl flutter kick. Which would suggest that maybe it's not the fin that actually makes the difference. Might be it's the way competitive swimmers kick that's efficient.

 

[TN Traveler]

The proper flutter kick for ANY fin in similar to the technique taught for a competition crawl kick - Force Fins are no exception. The problem is lots of people like to use a kick from the knee or a "bicycle" kick which absolutely will not work with Force Fins. I would say that when you are fighting a current or wanting to go fast - this competitive type flutter kick kick is the best alternative. The most effective kick for Force Fins is almost like a slow "dolphin" kick, like you use with a butterfly stroke, but one leg at a time. Force Fins were designed to mimic the action of a fishes tail and and work best when they get a hard initial flick (to load up the fin) and gentle follow through (to let the rebound finish the propulsion). This action uses the hip, abs and a little quads and results in minimal joint stress but moves you forward at a pace that is more than adequate.

By the way - I am not "selling" Force Fins, I have no horse in that race. I am only a very satisfied user, who has a great appreciation for the science behind them and I tend to want to pass on knowledge when I find "a better mouse trap".

Dive Safely