Force Fins vs Jetfins - tek diving and all the kicks

[TN Traveler]

Tan deltas are translucent - I think.

You are correct - lighter colors are almost transparent.

IF they are black - probably not Tan Delta

---------- Post added March 24th, 2015 at 09:25 AM ----------

The Accelerators in Tan Delta were supposed to be the best ones. Expensive though.
Weren't they discontinued?

I'd like to try that version one of these days.

I would not say they are discontinued - with Bob moving production to PA - the production of several models and production using Tan Delta and "Hockey Fin" urethanes is on hold.
I suspect that within the next year, they will be back - along with a couple of new models based on the OPS (optimal positioning systems) - these are fins that use a common foot pocket but allow the use of different blades and the ability to position the blades in relation to the foot pocket to maximize performance for the type of diving you are doing.

 

[ams511]

You are correct - lighter colors are almost transparent.

IF they are black - probably not Tan Delta

These seem pretty dark: Force Fin: Specials

 

[scubadada]

These seem pretty dark: Force Fin: Specials

What bargains

 

[TN Traveler]

These seem pretty dark: Force Fin: Specials

If you held any of these (except the Yellow Extras) up to the light - you would find that they ARE translucent. The urethanes in the Originals and Pros are opaque.
The Yellow Extras appear to be made of the newest Tan Delta Material - as used in the Hockey Fins and some of the Foil Force Fins - this material has the highest rebound of any material.

---------- Post added March 27th, 2015 at 09:23 AM ----------

What bargains

I will bet that you will spend $800 for a reg set that barely performs better than a $400 reg and that you will replace in 3-4 years but you think spending $450-$700 for a set of fins that will perform better, cause less fatigue and last a lifetime is expensive. The only fins that will last as long as Force Fins are rubber Jet Fins - that cause all sorts of leg/ankle/hip problems (unless ALL you do id frog kick).

I am not sure I understand the basis for your comment/logic???

 

[Dave616]

I will bet that you will spend $800 for a reg set that barely performs better than a $400 reg and that you will replace in 3-4 years but you think spending $450-$700 for a set of fins that will perform better, cause less fatigue and last a lifetime is expensive. The only fins that will last as long as Force Fins are rubber Jet Fins - that cause all sorts of leg/ankle/hip problems (unless ALL you do id frog kick).

As a FF owner, I could see how someone would be in his shoes. He can go to his LDS and play with a new $800 reg set that everyone there is already using, trade in his 4 year old set, and be happy about it. He cannot go there and try $800 FF's because 9 times out of 10, nobody even knows what they are. It's easy to tell someone that a $200 fin is better than a $100 fin, but nearly impossible to get someone to take a chance on an $700 set of fins when they can get something that works well on Craig's list for $50.

I bought my own FFP's because having been in the US Military, there are lots of pairs of FF's laying around to be used (along with Jet's and Rockets). Some guys loved them, some guys hated them.

My FFP's are always for sale because they are not powerful enough for me and were a disappointment. They are great fins and I would like to own a faster and more powerful version next time around, but I refuse to buy my next set of FF before I can try them. I have no issues with spending $800 on fins... after a test drive.

How many US dealers does FF currently have?

 

[TN Traveler]

If you are serious about trying/buying them - Force Fins offers a money back policy. The biggest problem with trying force fins right now is that they are moving production to a new location and not all models (especially those made with Tan Delta material) are available.

Bob Evans has explained that there are no longer any US dealers - because dealers would rather sell fins with a 100% to 200% mark-up - that have to be replaced every couple of years and that are "floor planned" by their suppliers rather than work with the lower margins on Force Fins.

If you were a little closer to me, I would love to let you try some of mine - mostly produced with Tan Delta materials - I am sure you would find that they fit the bill. If you ever get to SE Florida - Dan Volker has several pairs he would let you try, also.

 

[dmaziuk]

How can I tell if a FF is tan delta? I have a friend with a pair of Extra FF which I have been testing. I want to know if they are tan delta version.

Easy: if they're $1,500 they're tan delta, if they're mere $700 they ain't.

 

[eelnoraa]

I will bet that you will spend $800 for a reg set that barely performs better than a $400 reg and that you will replace in 3-4 years but you think spending $450-$700 for a set of fins that will perform better, cause less fatigue and last a lifetime is expensive. The only fins that will last as long as Force Fins are rubber Jet Fins - that cause all sorts of leg/ankle/hip problems (unless ALL you do id frog kick).

You analogy is OK, but the scale is not right IMO. Paying 2x for something is very different than paying 10x for something. Going from a Honda Civic ($20K) to a BMW ($40K) is a lot easier to swallow than going to a $200K Fararri.

Regulator industry as a whole work closely and trying very hard to market it is a life support equipment. Even that a entry level model and a decently high end model is different by 2x. I bet if majority of the regulators are at about $80, very few people will buy the $800 model. With fins, where most decent model are sub $100 with "high end" to be at $200 range, it is very difficult for average users to justify the $800 model, not to mention the tan delta $1500. For that much, I am looking at an used scooter. Why would anyone spend that much on a pair of fins while a $50 pair jet fins did just fine and a scooter will run circle around it. Tell me, with $1500 in your pocket, will you spend it on a pair of tan delta or an used but in decent shape DiveX Sierra?

 

[Pullmyfinger]

If you held any of these (except the Yellow Extras) up to the light - you would find that they ARE translucent. The urethanes in the Originals and Pros are opaque.
The Yellow Extras appear to be made of the newest Tan Delta Material - as used in the Hockey Fins and some of the Foil Force Fins - this material has the highest rebound of any material.

---------- Post added March 27th, 2015 at 09:23 AM ----------


The only fins that will last as long as Force Fins are rubber Jet Fins - that cause all sorts of leg/ankle/hip problems (unless ALL you do id frog kick).

Leg/ankle/hip problems..... Tell us more.

 

[TN Traveler]

I don't know where anyone is coming up with the $1500 price tag for Tan Delta material Force Fins (except for the one's for sale on ebay).
Excellerating Force Fins, with whiskers, bungie heel staps and comfort inserts (the highest priced model) , sell for $800 from Force Fins, when they are available. The guy/girl selling the set on ebay is trying to gouge people because of the fact that there are none being produced right now. Tan Delta fins usually cost about twice what the same fin using "pro" material costs - so Tan Delta standard force fins cost about $400.

As far as the leg/ankle/hip problems - The design of the foot pocket and the most efficient way of kinking with force fins, from the hip, reduces stress on these joints. I can personally attest to this since I have 2 bad ankles, 1 bad knee and a damaged hip and originally started experimenting with Force Fins because I had heard that they could help with these problems (I tried splits but was unhappy with their performance) . I occasionally try and use full foot blades for warm water but after a couple of dives, I am hurting. Force Fins do require a slightly different technique - as I said, kicking from the hip (not the knee) and allowing the ankle to flex easily (no stiff leg). At first it really does feel like you are not going anywhere because there is so little resistance but if you sight on the bottom or another diver, you find you are moving quite well with what feels like little stress. I can say that had I not found force fins, I would probably have stopped diving until I had at least 2 surgeries/rehabs (as it is, I take off my BPW/Tank before boarding a boat because my knee has problems supporting the added weight)