Force Fins- Types of Kicks

[Scubatooth]

etype once bubbled...
are forcefins good for a beginner? Yes.
Will they give you enough power. Yes.
The thing is, you have to decide if you want to pay the $ for premium fins. But then this is how you move through the water. \
If you want excellent gear... you have a choice between split fins or force fins. Rodale's did a survey where they rated split fins much higher than force fins.

well the reason that splits did better in the survey is that because the makers of the splits paid a huge sum to rodales for the test(ever notice that after a fin review (especially for splits) there is a add for that manufacture. plus in feb i was in coz for the latest fin test and i can tell you it was rigeed, because are froup asked the testers point blank "so let me quess the split fins won agian" and they looked us like thay had been shot, they mumbled something but i didnt hear it, but money talks more money the better the review.

BTW the orginal split fin was designed by Bob Evens (of force fin) and was called the foil force, it was later ripped off by one of bobs former friends who is the owner of apollo who claims he was first when he knows hes lieing.

FWIW

 

[David Evans]

I've never used Force Fins, so I can't comment on them objectively. I dive IDI Turtles (big fins, reminiscent of what a XXL Jet fin would look like - molded rubber blade, etc.)

What I see in reading this thread is how FAST force fins are.

But I believe Joel's original question had nothing to do with FAST, and everything to do with MANUVERABILITY.

I don't dive fast. I am looking for CONTROL.

I will admit that I see claims of backward kicking and frog kicking in force fins to be suspicious, based on the design. It appears to me, based on the design, that the fins are designed to create thrust on the "top" part of the fin (the part that is folded upwards - the part on the top of the foot). This seems to me to be a design where the power would come from the downstroke of a flutter kick, and where there would be virtually no resistance on the upstroke - this makes sense with regard to the speed and efficiency claims, ESPECIALLY with a flutter kick.

But the frog kick and modified frog are kicks where the thrust is derived from the BOTTOM of a fin, not the top, where the fin is feathered as it is drawn forward and the bottoms are "slapped" together for the forward thrust part of the kick. In other words, it appears to me that a pair of force fins worn UPSIDE DOWN would be an effecient design for a proper frog or modified frog. I hope this makes sense.

In any case: I am a photographer and wreck diver, and I dive in the silty-bottomed Puget Sound. Control is everything to me, and speed is meaningless. I use the tips of my fins with slow, deliberate ankle "flicks" to put me in the position I want to be in. And on drift dives, I use my fins like alierons of an airplane to steer me through the water.

For me, the blades have been very satisfying for these purposes.

SO - based on my explanations of my diving style, sell me on buying some force fins!



-d

 

[aaen]

Thanks for the responses guys. I have been pretty much sold on the force fins fromt he beginning. Also if I do buya pair of them, which pair should I buy. Where I am just starting out, I am thinking of getting force fin pros. Would like to get another pair, but I don;t want to blow my budget on fins, and have cut back on the quality of the other gear I am going to be buying.

Thanks
Steve

 

[etype]

aaen: pro's are good.

D.Evans: Interesting...i've practiced the kicks you mention, sounds like helicopter/ frog finning...i've seen other people kick frog with force's...and maybe someone else has something to say about this...but i suspect conventional fins may be better at that type of helicopter finning for position with slow direction movement such as instances were you are doing photography over a silty bottom.
I have dived many,many decayed wrecks, nets filled with salmon ****, and bottoms covered with salmon detritius (extremely disturbable silt) in forcefins and have had no problem preventing disturbance of the unfriendly accumulations as effective or arguably slightly more effectively with light controllable movements of the fins....but heli-frogging i don't know but i suspect conventional fins may have a edge for this use.

 

[ssra30]

I switched from Mares Quattro to Extra Force Fin a few months ago and had 30 dives on them so far. I also do quite a bit of UW photography and actually prefer to do slow frog kick once every 3-4 seconds as I look for all those little critters. I find force fins very comfortable and very efficient for that purpose. Of course when I go against current or need more speed, flutter kick is better but I think frog kicking is just as good with force fins as the Mares Quattro, although with less effort. When I creep along the sandy bottom, I also stirred up a lot less sand with force fins.

As far as control goes, I have no complain, whether it is a little propulsion or steering in strong current in a drift dive.

Going against the current felt a bit strange at first. With the Mares, the big slower kick is very powerful, but with force fins, initially it felt strange as you feel that you are going no where because you feel no resistance on the fin no matter how hard you kick and you try to kick faster. However, after a bit, i noticed that I was able to move forward pretty well. So I just relax and kick faster but with less exertion. It took awhile to get used to the feeling.

At least in comparison to Mares Quattro, I don't think there was anything that the Mares did better overall and force fins are much more comfortable and they come in a smaller package (less chance of kicking corals etc when I am in a tight spot taking pictures) and more manuevable (easier to arrange my footing and position around sandy bottom/rocks near coral while I try to stay still and take a picture). The Quattros feel more clumpsy in that respect.
Just my thought.....

 

[aaen]

I have decided to purchase the force fin pros. Any idea on what size I should get. I have a 12 EEEE foot size. I know it says a xxl will fit, but I was wondering if this is with a 3mm boot. I will be doing a lot of cold water diving, and I have to wear a 7mm wetsuit boot. Just wondering if you guys have any ideas.

Thanks

Steve

 

[etype]

i have a size 12 foot (don't know what 'eeeee' is) and i wear XL force with dry and wet suit boots. I bought XL instead of XXL because i want to swim bare sometimes...so i bought the comfort insoles. Man are those comfort insoles for bare feet nice. It's a nice change from wearing scab holes on the top of your bare feet like you do with with conventional fins.
One thing force fins do that no other fin comes close to, is not only actually be comfortable, and feel as good as the best running shoe on your bare feet (with a comfort insole).

 

[saltwater taffy]

If I lost my FF today, I would go out and buy a new pair tomorrow. I have two pair. I have the ones that look like a ducks feet (my most favorite). Then I have a pair that were a gift. They are designed for a diver who skull (sp????) kicks. That is what I do. They were VERY, VERY expensive. You'll love them.

Happy shopping

 

[ssra30]

etype once bubbled...
i have a size 12 foot (don't know what 'eeeee' is) and i wear XL force with dry and wet suit boots. I bought XL instead of XXL because i want to swim bare sometimes...so i bought the comfort insoles. ).

I am surprised. I wear size 9.5-10 shoes generally and use Henderson Gold Core size 10 boot and have a pair of Extra force fin size XL and they were a tight fit, at least on the top of my feet. I could not even use the comfort in-sole. With the insole, only half of my feet would get in the foot pocket. Not sure how you would get a size 12 foot with boot in an XL fin.

 

[Bob3]

I have a 12 EEEE foot size. I know it says a xxl will fit, but I was wondering if this is with a 3mm boot. I will be doing a lot of cold water diving, and I have to wear a 7mm wetsuit boot.

The XXL will fit a size 12 wide and have room for most 7mm booties.
There are a wide assortment of booties out there, but "on average" you'll have plenty of room with the XXL. (maybe too much with 3mm)