FL Cavern instructor

[B Lo]

Thank you. The problem isn't finding one. It's on deciding which one to select.

Best of luck finding an instructor.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

Funny though it may be to you, I've had multiple instructors who have viewed this thread offer to teach me. I invite a mod to verify this.

It may amaze you, but not every instructor is belligerent and egotistical. /QUOTE]

That is exactly what we were trying to tell you, and were all just here to have a friendly discussion, no need to post your messages received as proof, it's not a win or lose kind of thing. The pie just gets bigger.

 

[B Lo]

If you'd take a look at my reply, you'd notice that the cited comment of mine did not apply to your post. That applied to a sentence reading, "Based on your posts, you seem to already have an attitude issue when it comes to learning."

B Lo, just so I understand, my second to last sentence was “I think you will find that everyone you call will be down to earth and very interested in helping you learn to cavern dive safely.” You said that is indicative of an “impulsive and subjective judgement.”

I really don’t see where you draw that conclusion. I was merely responding to your concerns that instructors in cavern diving have an egotistical outlook which must be appeased in order for you to pass your class. My point was, if you call them, you will see that they are there to help you pass. If they stop very many people from passing, their reputation would be very poor. Cave instructors are there to instruct, and as long as the student has a receptive attitude—that is, they list to the advice and make the necessary changes, and follow safety guidelines, then they will eventually pass the class. I’ve never met an instructor who was happy that a student didn’t pass, their goal is always to find a way to improve the skills of the student so they can pass.

I think you misunderstood or are worrying too much over something quite innocuous. You seem to feel that cave instructors are there to pass judgment on whether you are a nice guy, and you seem unwilling to reconsider your fear that instructors are incredibly arbitrary and subjective might be unfounded in practice, or to even consider that attitude is something which can be indicated by objective observations during a class.

I think you also expressed a concern that I think you are egotistical…which is wrong. I do not know where you got that impression. I do think you are confused, but there are very few people I think are egotistical, and none of them are the instructors who were listed above. Every single one of them is a pretty darn good instructor and all around nice guy, and I bet you are as well.

I think the people responding with sarcasm are betting you have some point to make, or are trying to troll us, due to what looks like an out of proportion response to a minor clause that all of us had to agree to, and found no issue with. It’s like a store that has a sign up that says “we reserve the right to refuse service if management deems necessary.” Because most of us are reasonable, not unruly, etc, most of us have never been kicked out of a restaurant. So if you go in, and start yelling at the staff that they should attach objective limits to the sign for each and every possibly bad behavior and the limit that will get them kicked out, seems like an out of proportion response to the small sign posted by the door. And, if you ask the few people that are asked to leave every year, I think most of them will admit later on that they were being kind of bad and deserved to get kicked out, but you’ll always have a few that don’t get it. There’s a comedian who talks about seeing a glass display case in line at the airport of all the items which aren’t allowed, but were tried to be brought on to airplanes. One of the items was a chainsaw, in carry on luggage. He said most of us probably look at that and go “what kind of person thinks that they’ll be allowed to bring a chainsaw into the cabin of an airplane?” but that you know that person who got it taken from them is probably out there telling people “don’t fly XYZ air, you know they don’t even let you bring your chainsaw to your seat with you! How ridiculous is that?”

I agree that you may have been here to have a friendly discussion (as was I) but you know as well as I do that there are other folks who post here without intending to do anything other than be inflammatory.

Funny though it may be to you, I've had multiple instructors who have viewed this thread offer to teach me. I invite a mod to verify this.

It may amaze you, but not every instructor is belligerent and egotistical. /QUOTE]

That is exactly what we were trying to tell you, and were all just here to have a friendly discussion, no need to post your messages received as proof, it's not a win or lose kind of thing. The pie just gets bigger.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

If you'd take a look at my reply, you'd notice that the cited comment of mine did not apply to your post. That applied to a sentence reading, "Based on your posts, you seem to already have an attitude issue when it comes to learning."

Sorry about that, it gets tough to follow when you quote the entire post-on Tapatalk it takes up the entire page and makes it easy to lose track, I got your comments to my post swapped with your comments to the best post you commented on. I'll add a note to my post to explain it was my mistake.

 

[uncfnp]

So as someone that may be interested in a course herself and with so many great instructor options, does the choice of location or cavern system in Florida have any bearing on the course and is there a better time of year?

 

[PfcAJ]

You'll have no problem finding an instructor that will teach you. They're a dime a dozen these days, after all. And I'm sure the one you select will pass you and you'll feel like a real champ after the class. You'll probably get plenty of high fives and pats on the back.

The thing is, no amount of high fives is going to keep you alive. The list is LONG of folks who had a bad attitude, thought they were better than the system, and drowned. The list is even longer of people who got scared and quit.

There is some real experience speaking in this thread. Instructors, experienced divers, guys with thousands of hours under their belts. The best thing for a new cave student to do is take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth. This isn't a college class. Getting a good education (or denied certification) could mean the difference between going home in your car or going home in a pinewood box. Your choice.

But please, by all means, pick the lowest bidder instructor that will make you feel warm and fuzzy.

---------- Post added May 7th, 2014 at 05:32 PM ----------

So as someone that may be interested in a course herself and with so many great instructor options, does the choice of location or cavern system in Florida have any bearing on the course and is there a better time of year?

Best to train in as many systems as possible. Classes done only at Ginnie Springs do the student a disservice, imo.

At the moment, only Manatee and Ginnie are divable. Now is not a good time since so many systems are blown out do to all the rains.

 

[B Lo]

To you: It's not a problem; mistakes happen. I appreciate everyone's comments, whether in support of my stance or simply constructive criticism.

To others: The rabble rousing comments from folks who don't have the basic capability of expressing an argument with logic aren't very compelling. If a fool disagrees with me, it will simply reinforce my opinion. You're free to disagree with me. I don't take that personally. If you, instead, make it a personal attack, I'll just assume you are incapable of using what ought to be present between your ears. We are all blessed with different gifts. Some folks have been blessed with very few gifts in certain departments - and it shows.

Sorry about that, it gets tough to follow when you quote the entire post-on Tapatalk it takes up the entire page and makes it easy to lose track, I got your comments to my post swapped with your comments to the best post you commented on. I'll add a note to my post to explain it was my mistake.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

Thank you. The problem isn't finding one. It's on deciding which one to select.

You've been provided with many good options. It's a rather small community of folks that teach and dive caves. The well known names are well known for a reason.

 

[B Lo]

Where did you get the impression that I was picking the lowest bidder instructor? I made it abundantly clear, in my initial post, that I'm willing to pay more than what appears to be the standard rate if it means improved quality of instruction. I've never stated anything about taking an inexpensive route to certification. Do you feel that an instructor is the lowest bidder if he or she approves of his or her students expressing a well laid out opinion? That's pretty sad and reflects a clearly biased and obstinate mindset.

You'll have no problem finding an instructor that will teach you. They're a dime a dozen these days, after all. And I'm sure the one you select will pass you and you'll feel like a real champ after the class. You'll probably get plenty of high fives and pats on the back.

The thing is, no amount of high fives is going to keep you alive. The list is LONG of folks who had a bad attitude, thought they were better than the system, and drowned. The list is even longer of people who got scared and quit.

There is some real experience speaking in this thread. Instructors, experienced divers, guys with thousands of hours under their belts. The best thing for a new cave student to do is take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth. This isn't a college class. Getting a good education (or denied certification) could mean the difference between going home in your car or going home in a pinewood box. Your choice.

But please, by all means, pick the lowest bidder instructor that will make you feel warm and fuzzy.

 

[PfcAJ]

I'm not talking about money when I say lowest bidder.