FIRST TECH Course

[RAID MARKETING]

I wanted to follow up.
Based on information mostly gained here I contacted RAID and provided all the information. As well as my text conversations with the instructor and the dive shop owner. This was Steve, Lewis and PJ all high level management or VPs there. I had high hopes based on conversations that they would see the people that represent them locally here had not acted in a professional manner, provided a complete training or delivered any level of customer service. I've spent hours and hours on this.

What I got, several months later, only when I asked, from PJ(Marketing)was:

We have been in contact with the instructor and action has been taken.

I wrote back that I found this inadequate for incomplete training, disgusting treatment from a customer service viewpoint and being treated as a stupid, inferior, and ininformed diver by the instructor and his manager. I also said in the interest of transparency I felt they should let me know what the action taken was.

This time i was answered by Steve(VP):

He said since I checked off the training a few months earlier there was nothing they could do. That action was taken, but they couldn't share it due to privacy concerns. Further that they considered the matter closed.

I wrote back saying that I'm getting 2 responses, neither of which was adequate. That I have worked in Customer service most of my life and would never let a customer leave with this type of experience. That the response was way to abrupt and did not really provide any answers. As far as the time frame-you don't know what you don't know when you first complete a training. It was only after doing tech dives some time later and trying to arrange more dives with my instructor had he become more nasty and telling me I was cheap, asking to do things that were unsafe( doing more time after clearing deco under the boat-it isn't unsafe) and that I wasn't thinking correctly-I realized how bad my training had been and things that had been missed.

I've had no other response. My issue was not with RAID but with the instructor and the shop manager. After these responses, RAID has failed me as well.

Now, after days of my time, I'm over all of this.
I have moved on and I'm training on Doubles. I'm doing TDI Decompression Procedures with a fantastic instructor. I find the TDI materials are much more thorough and in depth. He's Gabriel Rioux at Atmosphere resort in Dauin, PH. He is patient, answers all my questions and is working to make up the things that were left out in my RAID course. Atmospheres shop is fantastic and the gear is new and top level. Thank God after all that mess I found a competent and understanding professional.

Happy diving everyone!

and thank you to everyone who tried to help and gave helpful information and advice.

I would have replied sooner but I had to register with Scubaboard since my old profile seems to have been deleted.

Hello: This is Steve Lewis. I used to be a regular contributor here with the username Doppler, but have registered today as RAID Marketing since that's what I do.

Just to clarify the situation that's the genesis of REXMAN24's post in this thread.

1) RAID has what we believe is a unique customer satisfaction/QA System that requires EVERY student to complete as part of the certification process. Its main function from the student's POV is to verify that the course met their expectations and that they are comfortable performing the required skills for their level of certification.

2) In the case of a dispute between a student and one of our members, my colleague P.J. Prinsloo (VP of Training) reviews the facts (as best he can given the vagaries of just about EVERY interpersonal interaction) and determines if standards were broken or if the situation falls into the CustSat category. ALL standards violations go before the QA Team for investigation. Others are dealt with on a more Ad Hoc process depending on circumstances.

3) The outcome of any investigation is protected by privacy guidelines... RAID is registered in the UK and therefore follows that region's guidelines. (However, most western country's guidelines are very similar, and the same sort of protections rule.)

4) RAID sells course credits to its members... the course fees are exchanged between the student and the dive centre/instructor. That financial transaction is between the student and dive centre or instructor. FYI this is true of all of the Big Seven diver certification agencies. The average price of those credits depends on the program but a quick check online will show it's considerably less than the course fees... And is shared with the local regional office.

In REXMAN24's case, PJ dug around and found that he had signed off on the skills. At the time of the course, he raised no other issues. Sometime later, he opened his complaint. I cannot give details of PJ's dealing with the DC and/or the instructor (see point 3) but I know PJ is nothing but thorough.

The incident was handed to me as a customer satisfaction issue and I tried to explain to REXMAN24 that there wasn't much to be done. I cannot issue a refund because we collected no money from the transaction, and REXMAN24 didn't ask for that... in fact, did not ask for anything. My reading was that he simply wanted to have the shop and its instructor reprimanded.

I'm sorry that a student has gone away dissatisfied, and more sorry that he feels uncomfortable diving at the level he has been trained to. He mentioned that another RAID member has offered to retrain him gratis. This is wonderful. I hope that member contacts HQ and asks for a free credit for the course. I'll suggest that accounting gifts it.

I'm unsure what else can be done. In cases where standards are broken, the usual sanction for the instructor is probation, suspension or expulsion. Dodgy business dealings have resulted in this sort of action, although not the sort of customer relations we like to hear about. However, following PJ's investigation, this does not appear to be one of those cases.

Thanks for your attention.

For anyone curious about RAID's QA System, this may be of interest.

The Benefits of Being an Online Training Partner – Dive RAID International

diveraid.com

 

[steinbil]

In REXMAN24's case, PJ dug around and found that he had signed off on the skills. At the time of the course, he raised no other issues. Sometime later, he opened his complaint. I cannot give details of PJ's dealing with the DC and/or the instructor (see point 3) but I know PJ is nothing but thorough.

Are you saying that his claim in this thread - that 3 of 5 skills not completed were not checked off - is not accurate?

 

[RAID MARKETING]

Are you saying that his claim in this thread - that 3 of 5 skills not completed were not checked off - is not accurate?

Yes. According to our QA system, all the skills were signed off as done by the student. It that was not clear in my post, apologies.

 

[Alekseolsen]

I dont have any opinion either way here, but he did state that there are no checkboxes for the skills in question.

Quote:
Thanks
I did admit to checking off 2 skills that weren't done, that was my error. The other three things that weren't done there was no check off.
QNQUOTE

 

[rexman24]

I dont have any opinion either way here, but he did state that there are no checkboxes for the skills in question.

Quote:
Thanks
I did admit to checking off 2 skills that weren't done, that was my error. The other three things that weren't done there was no check off.
QNQUOTE

2 training items that I don't see a check off for and wernt done are:
150 yd inert diver tow-not trained or practiced.
Dry stress test-never brought up or done

 

[steinbil]

I dont have any opinion either way here, but he did state that there are no checkboxes for the skills in question.

Good catch, I missed that...

Yes. According to our QA system, all the skills were signed off as done by the student. It that was not clear in my post, apologies.

I appreciate that you are participating in the discussion, and your post gives some context and explains why no compensation was given. However, since you are here, I would like to suggest that the QA form should not be used against the student. I can think of many scenarios (human factors) leading students to check off something that wasn't done, whether it's intentional or not - thinking it's not a big deal, peer pressure, not wanting to get the instructor in trouble, just wanting to get through it, not remembering/misunderstanding - so in my opinion it should only be a first line of defense against blatant violations. Saying "You checked the boxes in the form so now you can no longer make a complaint about things missed" doesn't make a lot of sense with that in mind. I do understand it puts you in a tough position and that it's one persons word against another. But I would like to see an agency err on the side of believing the student rather than mistrusting them, and offering to at least cover what was missed (or at least missed by the student) in a follow up class. I think this is the lesser evil, and I can't really see people taking advantage of getting the chance to repeat skills from a class they paid for. Just my two cents...

 

[RainPilot]

He mentioned that another RAID member has offered to retrain him gratis. This is wonderful. I hope that member contacts HQ and asks for a free credit for the course. I'll suggest that accounting gifts it.

That was me, Steve, appreciate the offer but since he is certified there wouldn't be any cert costs, so that wouldn't be necessary. He has found a new instructor anyway so it's a moot point in this case.

I have sent a password reset email for your @Doppler username, maybe that will reactivate the account if you need it.

2 training items that I don't see a check off for and wernt done are:
150 yd inert diver tow-not trained or practiced.
Dry stress test-never brought up or done

Those 2 are a bit of a grey area, since they are not part of the course, but pre requisites (ie you are supposed to do them BEFORE you start with the actual course). That is probably why they aren't in the QA sign-off, since those come from a list of skills to be done during the dives (the sign-off is broken down into Confined Water and Open Water sign offs). Steve, it might be worth looking at adding them to the CW sign off list moving forward if that doesn't get too complicated for the system?

 

[happy-diver]

I may go to The States one day, is Puget Sound the farthest I can be from Florida, or should I try Alaska

 

[berndo]

Hello: This is Steve Lewis. I used to be a regular contributor here with the username Doppler, but have registered today as RAID Marketing since that's what I do.

Hey Steve, a few years ago I was looking for a ccr class and I was also looking on the RAID website too, because a buddy of mine is a big fan of RAID. There was no 'instructor search' or 'class search' on the website then and today there still isn't any search function or filter for this.
AFAIK every other agency lets you find a class and instructor their website.
You should really add that. RAID instructors and RAID are definitely losing business because of this...

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I may go to The States one day, is Puget Sound the farthest I can be from Florida, or should I try Alaska

Yea that is far enough away, try Utqiagvik, Alaska.