An age-old question: ways to 60m.

[old frogman]

Sounds like progress, as there are many more CCR divers today. The lack of a denominator is a widely acknowledged issue.

That's a positive spin on the statement. Acceptable comment.

Let's take a negative spin on the statement. Despite all the advancements in rebreather technology over the last ten years, incident rates have not declined.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I quite agree with that. With caution, respect of the depth and training...

Comparing as it is done here with dives 40 years ago or more is not fair. When you speak with divers who used to dive at this time you realise sometime the dives were made without much caution. It was a more "dare devil" time, with divers going down to 80 m on air and don't really thinking about it, so of course there were accidents !

Clearly another point is the way we dive in Europe and how it is made in America : in America there are clear distinction between rec dives on ndl at around 20 to 30 m and tec dives (PADI and the other agencies have made their job). In Europe it is a bit different the distinction is not that clear : we have deco dives, sometime we go below 40-45 m, even on air, but don't always think it is tec dives. But many accidents with dives on air in the 50 m range ? Not really. But as David said it is certainly more cautious to dive with something else than air at those depth

Exactly. My BSAC training in was called sports diving. Deco training on air as Nitrox was not then used in 1986. I have never considered Deco dives to be technical dives per se even using nitrox.

My regs have aways breathed fine on deep dives but then a1986gain, I like to remain calm and do things slowly including breathing. I was on a deep dive and the chap I was with clearly looked in distress and wide eyed.

He was narced and I took him by one arm and led him to a shallower depth. He signaled he was OK at around 30m depth and we continued our dive. After the dive he asked me how was it that I was not affected at depth as he was. I just replied people are different. He no longer does deep dives at all, and is not interested in the Helium route. That episode at depth was enough for him to decide no more. He doesn't like to even go to 35m anymore.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Well that would be misinformation, you still do not accept that risks increase by just using ccr. I see very little difference between you and someone who claims deep air is fully safe because they know what they are doing, rhetoric is identical.

No dive is safe. Recently in Malta a very experienced technical diver drowned at 2m depth. Forgot to checck his air supply was turned on. Humans are not designed by nature to be diving underwater. We also do poorly in space and zero gravity. There is always a risk. I used to race motorcycles and fly hang gliders.
Yet the thing that did me injury was being hit by a drunk driver on my bike when he went straight through a T junction. Slow speed at 40kmh/r speed but enough to cause me serious injury.

I dive because it is like meditation for me. I feel more relaxed and of course the water is like a magic carpet most of the time. Strong down currents have taken me from 10m to 45m very quickly. That is a risk always.

Anyway death is a part of life, the final frontier.
My wife does not dive. She does however tell me hey its time you went diving again lol
She sees me looking at my dive videos and photos from dive trips.

She knows if I don't come back my tombstone will me marked with "he's sleeping with the fishes"
Wherever I die my body gets donated to a teaching hospital as cadavars are always needed.

 

[nadwidny]

That's a positive spin on the statement. Acceptable comment.

Let's take a negative spin on the statement. Despite all the advancements in rebreather technology over the last ten years, incident rates have not declined.

What advancements? They are basically the same now as they were 10 years ago. 20 years ago.+. Same method of monitoring, same principles. Of course the incident rates haven't declined. It's the same technology just in different packages.

 

[old frogman]

What advancements? They are basically the same now as they were 10 years ago. 20 years ago.+. Same method of monitoring, same principles. Of course the incident rates haven't declined. It's the same technology just in different packages.

Let's see:
New oxygen sensor technology - Poseidon rebreathers (electro-optical solid-state sensor).
Scrubber carbon dioxide monitoring system.
Integrated dive computers with wireless connectivity.
AI assisted diagnosis.
Improved scrubber design for more effective carbon-dioxide removal.
Miniaturized electronics.
Heated breathing loops, for those deep super cold dives.
Bail out rebreathers.
Front mounded counter lungs for better WOB and confined space exploration.
Side mounted diluent/bailout tanks for confined space exploration.

Despite these advancements the loop cannot be engineered to be safe. Also, more technology equals more potential failure points.

Emerging technology - human portable quantum technology inertial navigation instruments for underwater use (better than GPS). Shh don't tell anyone.

Mate, you need to trade in your old rebreather.

 

[Wibble]

and because they are challenging dives with CCR they create the statistic. Numbers do not lie.

Therefore comparing CCR diving with sky diving is just as accurate?

 

[old frogman]

Therefore comparing CCR diving with sky diving is just as accurate?

A fatality is a fatality regardless of how it happens. We are talking about the number of fatalities per 100,000.

Maybe you should trade in your rebreather on an improved model.

 

[Wibble]

What advancements? They are basically the same now as they were 10 years ago. 20 years ago.+. Same method of monitoring, same principles. Of course the incident rates haven't declined. It's the same technology just in different packages.

Several improvements:

• CE type approval sets basic standards for scrubber timing and WOB
• Training standards - cannot buy a CCR without proof of training on that unit
• Computers and electronics; DiveCAN, Shearwater

 

[Wibble]

A fatality is a fatality regardless of how it happens. We are talking about the number of fatalities per 100,000.

Maybe you should trade in your rebreather on an improved model.

It’s as current as you can get.

Generally it’s not the kit that gets you; it is your body or, more commonly, it’s not sticking to your training, especially planning and bailout requirements. Diving “alpinist” (too little or no bailout) will eventually bite you on the arse.

It is well known that any rebreather diver has to be exceedingly pedantic and spend plenty of time preparing equipment prior to diving. You cannot just throw a rebreather on your back and expect to live.

Assume the box is out to kill you. A rebreather is not your friend, it is your assassin.

 

[old frogman]

It’s as current as you can get.

Generally it’s not the kit that gets you; it is your body or, more commonly, it’s not sticking to your training, especially planning and bailout requirements. Diving “alpinist” (too little or no bailout) will eventually bite you on the arse.

It is well known that any rebreather diver has to be exceedingly pedantic and spend plenty of time preparing equipment prior to diving. You cannot just throw a rebreather on your back and expect to live.

Assume the box is out to kill you. A rebreather is not your friend, it is your assassin.

Agree, the rebreather is a killing instrument.

So, what are the safest killing instruments, I mean rebreathers, that is mixed gas CCRs?