First Post! First BC purchase, a mistake?

[Marek K]

Hey Gary, the thing I don't understand is when you can buy if for the exact same price with warranty, why did you opt to buy grey market anyway? There are multiple places, not just Scubatoys that will match their price and give you a full warranty from the manufacturer... That's the thing I don't get.

Hi Larry... I couldn't resist jumping in at this point, since you've touched on exactly the reason why I've unfortunately been ordering stuff from LP instead of going to you...

Jonnythan likes his BP/W, and I like my jacket BC... but we do agree on one thing (correct me if I'm wrong, jonnythan!): We don't want the hassle of having to bargain, even if it just consists of calling to get a matching price.

Example, though I admit it's not an item where a manufacturer's warranty is particularly important: I was just shopping around for a BC knife, and was looking at the Genesis/Akona SideKick 2 -- I assume it's the identical knife with either trademark. On your web site (Genesis brand) it was $39.95. On LP (Akona brand), it was $29.95. Twenty-five percent less!

Calling you would have been a bit more of a hassle for me, since I'm living in Europe now --I can't call toll-free, and there's a seven-hour time zone difference. But even if the call were free, it's a lot easier for me to just order from LP. (I ended up ordering a TUSA Mini Knife from LP, which you don't carry.)

It's like any store that advertises that they'll match their competitors' prices... Fair enough, but if I find it cheaper at your competitor, and all other things are equal (or equivalent), why shouldn't I just buy it there? (Now, if you were offering to match 110% of the difference... )

OK, you may have a point when it's an item where having a manufacturer's warranty might be important. But for small stuff, it's just not worth the hassle of even having to just call.

Another issue is related to brand loyalty... your price-matching policy obviously only applies if you carry the identical product that I want or need, and I can think of several recent cases where you haven't.

Oh, I also agree with jonnythan that you're a real asset here, and it's always a pleasure to read your posts. I just wish I had the opportunity to send more business your way!

--Marek

 

[lmorin]

Yea, ground UPS for us to NY is about 3-4 days... but then you'd also have no sales tax... and it doesn't take a lot of bargaining... "Call Larry, say, I want this and they have it for this amount, I say ok, it's shipping today thanks." Pretty easy overall. Wish I could mark those prices for click to buy... but can't and still give full warranty.

"but can't and still give full warranty." Larry, this is the part that really bothers me. ScubaToys and other businesses are prevented by the manufacturers from advertising lower prices. Why do you agree to it? If they try to intimidate ScubaToys by threatening to remove ScubaToys as a bonafide agent selling their merchandise, sue them! Your company is big enough to stand up to the manufacturers and has the respect of the dive community to receive its support for doing so. There are two basic forms of price fixing, horizontal and vertical. Horizontal occurs when manufacturers collude with each other to fix their prices or when retailers collude to fix prices. Vertical price fixing is just as illegal (at least in NY State) and occurs when the manufacturer constrains the retail prices. If you are fit to sell at any price you want, you certainly are fit to advertise that price. It is not just a price fixing issue, it is a free speech issue. Although there are some limits, you (i.e., ScubaToys) have the right to say what you want in your own advertising. At least, that is how it seems to me. Stand up for all of us; advertise the real prices, sell the goods at those prices and earn our dollars with ease!! Check with your lawyers and see what they say. Don't just continue with the status quo simply because "that is the way it has always been done."

 

[jonnythan]

Morin in NYS... of Morin's Dive Center?

 

[lmorin]

Morin in NYS... of Morin's Dive Center?

Sorry, no relation. Where are they? I might give my business to them

 

[jonnythan]

Oh OK, was just curious. They're in Glens Falls.

BTW, Marek, the reason to buy from Larry is that you get the manufacturer standing behind the product. That can be a powerful thing.

 

[MakoMermaid]

If they try to intimidate ScubaToys by threatening to remove ScubaToys as a bonafide agent selling their merchandise, sue them!

LOL. I'm guessing you haven't paid any attorney fees lately. Do you have any idea how much a suit like that would cost?

 

[lmorin]

LOL. I'm guessing you haven't paid any attorney fees lately. Do you have any idea how much a suit like that would cost?

It greatly depends upon the nature of the suit. If there is a civil penalty that could result, the lawyers might do it for a cut of the action. If a legal review determines that, in all probability, the manufacturers are in violation of state and federal price fixing laws, then both the states and the feds might take over the case and there might be a criminal complaint filed. What do you think? Does it cost less to give in and thereby earn less money for the business? Could ScubaToys cut the litigation cost by joining forces with others and perhaps creating a class action suit? Is the topic of lower prices for scuba gear one that sellers and buyers would like to pursue? Should one give up the effort because nobody else has done it?

 

[jonnythan]

I think it's asking a lot to ask these guys to go up against the huge scuba companies, don't you? Larry's just trying to run a business, not a crusade.

 

[scubatoys]

Well, the thing is, manufacturers can set vertical price restraints... They can't legally stop me from selling at any price - but they can choose to not ship to me if I sell below a set price... Hate to say it, but that is legal. Then I'm chasing around the world with a briefcase of cash trying to bribe overseas distributors into selling to me... Just too much work. I realize the phone call and the warranty are not worth it to some... but are to others... So I guess I just go on with my business model and gather up a sale or two where I can!

 

[Marek K]

BTW ... the reason to buy from Larry is that you get the manufacturer standing behind the product. That can be a powerful thing.

Jonnythan--

I agree... when it's important to have that manufacturer's warranty, and when Larry carries what you want or need.

But there are a lot of other variables.

Like if it's a cheap item that certainly won't go bad or won't be worth claiming, like an inexpensive knife, then the warranty isn't much of a consideration. I'm sorry, but I'm just ordering a commodity like that from whoever offers me the best on-line price (and who I feel I can depend on as a merchant, of course).

Brand loyalty is important too... I happen to like Sherwood regulators (please, no arguments... it's like people that keep buying Fords)... and Sherwood, as I understand, refuses to warranty any of their products that are mail ordered. So LP's "equivalent" warranty was good enought for me, and I ordered my Magnum from them.

--Marek