First Post! First BC purchase, a mistake?

[jonnythan]

Jonnythan--

I agree... when it's important to have that manufacturer's warranty, and when Larry carries what you want or need.

But there are a lot of other variables.

Like if it's a cheap item that certainly won't go bad or won't be worth claiming, like an inexpensive knife, then the warranty isn't much of a consideration. I'm sorry, but I'm just ordering a commodity like that from whoever offers me the best on-line price (and who I feel I can depend on as a merchant, of course).

Brand loyalty is important too... I happen to like Sherwood regulators (please, no arguments... it's like people that keep buying Fords)... and Sherwood, as I understand, refuses to warranty any of their products that are mail ordered. So LP's "equivalent" warranty was good enought for me, and I ordered my Magnum from them.

--Marek

Er, then order from LeisurePro. I do. Order from Larry when it makes sense to do. Buy at the LDS when it makes sense to do so.

No one vendor is going to be the best for everything.

About that regulator... there's a warranty.. and there's a service plan. Ask Larry about that

 

[The Kraken]

I think Scubatoys is intergrating itself into a dynamic market very well.

I used to work for a large manufacturer of precision gauges. For decades they had gone to market strictly through the traditional channels of distribution.

The market changed and the consumer started driving the way business was done. The company had to reposition itself with respect to the way it was doing business.

Such is the case now with the diving equipment industry; the channels of distribution are changing.

Let us suppose that a diver elects to purchase his whole kit through an on-line distributor knowingly losing the "manufacturer's warranty" on some items.

Most manufacturers with whom I've ever had business dealings designed and produced their products in a method to significantly reduce or eliminate the need for such necessities as warranties. Manufacturers don't like to have to deal with warranty issues because it costs.

The diver chooses to forego the manufacturer's warranty on his regulator and his BC.
Now, let us suppose that his complete rig, if purchased at an "authorized dealer", cost $2000, not an unreasonable figure. If the diver purchased his rig on-line and saved 40% the LDS cost he would have $800 that could be applied to the maintenance of his gear.

Now, consider not the possibility that a piece of gear will fail, because anything is possible, but the PROBABILITY that a given piece of gear is going to fail.

I think I'd prefer to save $800 and not mind paying a $150 repair cost if the item did, in fact, become defective.

Let me ask this question, what is the worth of a warranty if it's never made manifest? I do suppose there is a psychological income derived from the fact that one won't have to pay out of pocket at the time the item becomes defective, but that's because the customer has already paid for it, and at a higher price.

But I digress . . . to some extent.

Larry, I think you guys are doing an excellent job of taking a traditional business interest and moving it seamlessly into a new dynamic, at least from the viewpoint of the consumer.

Hope you guys do good . . .

 

[Marek K]

Er, then order from LeisurePro. I do. Order from Larry when it makes sense to do. Buy at the LDS when it makes sense to do so.

No one vendor is going to be the best for everything.

I agree. Bingo. Remember that Larry seemed to be wondering why anyone would order anything from anyone else.

About that regulator... there's a warranty.. and there's a service plan. Ask Larry about that

By "service plan," you mean like when a manufacturer gives you free parts or even free service for a while, as long as the equipment is serviced yearly? Yeah, that's another issue... With Sherwood, unfortunately, there's only one authorized service dealer in all of Poland, halfway across the country. I didn't realize that when I was ordering my Magnum...

Man, this is real-time messaging... except it's 9:00 at night here... and 3:00 in the afternoon in NY!

--Marek

 

[jonnythan]

I agree. Bingo. Remember that Larry seemed to be wondering why anyone would order anything from anyone else.

By "service plan," you mean like when a manufacturer gives you free parts or even free service for a while, as long as the equipment is serviced yearly? Yeah, that's another issue... With Sherwood, unfortunately, there's only one authorized service dealer in all of Poland, halfway across the country. I didn't realize that when I was ordering my Magnum...

Man, this is real-time messaging... except it's 9:00 at night here... and 3:00 in the afternoon in NY!

--Marek

The internet is great, isn't it?

Yeah that's what I meant by service plan. Larry would be able to give me those freebies, but LeisurePro wouldn't.

 

[ScottZeagle]

Well, the thing is, manufacturers can set vertical price restraints... They can't legally stop me from selling at any price - but they can choose to not ship to me if I sell below a set price... Hate to say it, but that is legal.

If it wasn't legal, we wouldn't do it. When a MAP price is against the law, or obsolete, you will see the slow painfull death of many LDS. I guarantee it.

I find it funny that all of lmorin's post thus far have to due with LP. Coincedence? Maybe...

 

[lmorin]

More on the warranty issue. This comes from the web site of the New York State Attorney General http://www.oag.state.ny.us/faqs/faq.html

Question:

Can you please explain what is meant by the term "implied warranty?"

Answer:

Many products are sold with "express warranties" or "written warranties" which are provided by the product manufacturer. If your purchase does not come with a written warranty, it is still covered by implied warranties unless the product is sold "as is." Implied warranties are provided by law and not by the manufacturer or seller. The most common type of implied warranty is the "warranty of merchantability" which means simply that a product is supposed to do what its supposed to do. The second type is a warranty of "fitness for a particular purchase." For instance if you rely on a sellers' advice that a sleeping bag is recommended for sub-zero temperatures, then an implied warranty of fitness for sub-zero temperatures is created.

Consumer Tip:

Implied warranties come automatically with every sale, even though they are not written out.

 

[Marek K]

Yeah that's what I meant by service plan. Larry would be able to give me those freebies, but LeisurePro wouldn't.

Actually, the way I read LP's warranty, I think they might. Sherwood offers free parts (not labor) for each of the annual services during the two-year warranty period, and that's part of the warranty. LP should do the same, as long as the regulator is returned to them for service.

But there's the rub... I'm not sure I'd trust LP to do the servicing, since I just don't know what the qualifications are of their techs. If I had a Sherwood dealer neaby, I'd still take the regulators in to them for annual services and just pay for the parts myself.

In my particular case here in Poland, it's even worse... I'm going to have to ship the regulator to the single Sherwood dealer halfway across the country, and they have to get the service kits from a distributor in Germany -- I've already experienced significant delays because of that. Oh, well... at least the labor costs are low here... I just hope Sherwood is certifying the techs correctly, because I feel queasy when I don't get to meet the guy in person.

Hey, aren't you supposed to be at work this time of day?

--Marek

 

[zboss]

Consider yourself lucky... do you know how difficult it is to get over 50 responses and 1500 views of a thread?

Oh yea, the last thing you should do in diving is fuss about the issue of "buying the right thing" - we have all bought too much of the wrong thing and in the end, there is no good purchase anyhow. Eventually all your equipment will feel old or be old or old technically. Whatever you do - don't spend more on your equipment then you do on actual diving.

Just take your equipment, make sure you get it serviced regularly (BTW - no one is going to turn away servicing your equipment, no matter where you purchased it, since they all need business) and go diving.

 

[lmorin]

If it wasn't legal, we wouldn't do it. When a MAP price is against the law, or obsolete, you will see the slow painfull death of many LDS. I guarantee it.

I find it funny that all of lmorin's post thus far have to due with LP. Coincedence? Maybe...

For what it is worth, Scott, I have never purchased anything from LP. In fact, the only internet dive equipment purchases I have ever made have been from ScubaToys. If you read my post above, it clearly shows I am an advocate of ScubaToys and wish them the best of luck in their business. I am also a consumer advocate and wish all consumers of dive equipment the best of luck and legal backing in obtaining the equipment they want at the lowest prices possible. I cannot understand why Zeagle would want to prevent ScubaToys from advertising a price that is equal to that at which they will sell the item if it means that Zeagle sales would go up. If Larry can advertise much lower prices, why wouldn't ScubaToys sales of Zeagle equipment go up? It is not Zeagle's job to protect the LDSs. The only reason I have any particular support for LP is because they are stating a reality--the price at which they are willing to sell. It is up front and everyone knows it. Let the rest of the dive industry move to that standard. Let the consumers see what the real price options are. If you don't object to Larry selling at lower than the prices you allow him to advertise, what rational basis do you have for prohibiting such advertising?

 

[Asweptwing]

Please show me the error in my math! My annuals on various regulators runs about $75-90/year. LP might sell me a ScubaPro for $150-200 less than my LDS but annuals will be full cost (parts & labor) if I send it to LP or take it to my LDS since no warranty information or registration is available from LP internet sales.

Now in ten years (about how long I use a reg setup) I wind up having supported my LDS (hope they're in business that long) and recaptured the difference between prices of LP and LDS. Plus I have created some kind of relationship with my LDS and have a local supplier of advice and tech information on regulators.

I haven't always felt this way and have purchased LP products in the past (and may again) but due to the way I was sold the equipment by a local shop I was made to see the value of buying a known product from a local retailer.

The salesman at the store spoke honestly with me about internet sales on a level I identified as 'no BS!'. I don't know if all other dive equipment could be dealt with in these terms.

Any comments or ideas. BTW, this is one of the more interesting threads I've followed in quite a while. That's what prompted a rare posting from me. Thanks!