First Post! First BC purchase, a mistake?

[scubatoys]

Sherwood, as I understand, refuses to warranty any of their products that are mail ordered. So LP's "equivalent" warranty was good enought for me, and I ordered my Magnum from them.

--Marek

Not true... I can sherwood at any price - but have to mark it at their MAP pricing - and can ship no problem... still full warranty from Sherwood.

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

This is MY theory on how it works, but I, too could be wrong...
Scott

Yeah, that sounds right to me, Scott. But you still don't address why "Best-in-Biz" demands that "Dive Store X" sell their items for a certain price. Why does "Best-in-Biz" try to prevent the scenario you outline (Best in Biz sells to Dive Store X sells to Huge Online retailer), even though it seems a good deal for everyone? Why in the world would "Best-in-Biz" not want to sell to "Huge Online Retailer" wholesale, regardless of the end retail price "Huge Online Retailer" sets? And in the end, isn't "Best-in-Biz's" policy hurting the "Dive Store X" by denying them the right to set competitive pricing?

There's nothing in the scenario you outlined that differs from what I outlined. But it still doesn't address the point, that it is the *manufacturers* who are forcing LDS's out of business by requiring them to sell at non-competitive prices. If "Dive Store X" sells gear just above wholesale to "Huge Online Retailer", they are probably doing so because of the difficulty they have staying afloat...a difficulty caused directly by the policies of "Best-in-Biz".

 

[Rick_G]

Hello-

Last time I checked you "consumer advocates" weren't making the payroll and mortgages. What gives anyone the right to tell a company for how much and to whom they may sell there products to or when or how they should offer warranties. Ya- you can make it into a supreme court case but we're not talking about fraud. Can't anyone be responsible for the "own" actions anymore, you don't like the deal don't buy it, don't complain about it and try to get something for nothing. Nobodies making dive stores sell their products, they apply for a dealer ship and agree to the terms, don't like the terms sell someone else's product. Call the ACLU maybe they'll get you some free dive gear with 10 year warranties. This whole thread looks like a poster child for socialism. Isn't this America?


Rick

 

[scubatoys]

And some folks are slamming the manufacturers for their policies... I just want to add this... When it comes down to it, everyone wants the same thing. They want to run their business, make some money, and limit hassles... that's it. It is then up to each manufacturer to come up with a game plan that accomplishes that. And there is no ultimate answer... Unlike scuba, business does not have the benefit of an all knowing person that knows how to "Do it Right". There are different opinions and configurations.

So here's poor ole Scott who's goal is to make a good product, and sell as many as possible. Should he let me mark them down and sell more?? Problem is then, the little shop in Tulsa, or where ever, suddenly decides, "I'm not going to carry Zeagle any more since ScubaToys sells them cheap - I'm not making enough margin to keep my lights on if I put people in that BC." I've heard on the board - "Yea, but if he sold them at that price he could sell more!"... True, but in a limited population situation, he will not make up enough profit from the slight increase to equal the margin loss... and he would go out... So instead he switches to selling SeaQuest, or ScubaPro, or whatever.

Now without him talking up Zeagle... will the people from Tulsa call Me and order enough to offset the hit Zeagle takes in losing that dealer?? Doubtful.

And don't think Scott doesn't hear it from me. Dive shops complain about me, I complain about leisurepro, and Scott just complains! But it's just all about people trying to run their business in the best way they can and keep as many people as possible happy - and at the end of the day, you feel you've got a good product, a good company, and a few dollars in your pocket.

Now other companies might say, "After you buy it - I don't care if you give it away or burn it!"

These are just philosophical business model differences... they are not right or wrong, so please don't give Scott too hard of a time. We don't need to tell me to start suing everyone in sight. I carry virtually every brand there is, and Scott and Zeagle are in a very small minority of the guys that I feel do their best to treat everyone fair when trying to implement their business model. For that reason, and that they have a very superior product, I choose to support them in their pricing structures, and do what I can to move as much Zeagle as I can.

Likewise, the consumer will decide what business models they support.

 

[Rick_G]

Hello-

Scott has Zeagle ever thought about going factory direct? Just send commission checks to all the distributors.

Rick

 

[scubadobadoo]

As much as I have defended LP and spent at LP, I would like to point out that LP isn't and won't participate in this discussion. Other shops that do match LP prices are taking the time to participate. Thanks for your time and honesty guys. I will certainly look to you in the future for purchases. LP Price matching and "LDS" style service is hard to find on the internet. I hope you can continue to stay in business.

 

[scubatoys]

Hello-

Scott has Zeagle ever thought about going factory direct? Just send commission checks to all the distributors.

Rick

Actually, I'll tell you another thing about Scott. I have reps for Zeagle... They really had no part of my development of the Zeagle Brigade BC, and really are not much of a factor at all in my buying... And while other companies have adopted me as a "house account" in order to cut out reps commisions... The Zeagle folks have a great respect for the people who have been with the company from the beginning, when the world said a weight integrated BC would kill people... You can't have back inflate - you need a horse collar... That's how long most have been with Zeagle, and when you spend any time dealing with them... You'd understand why.

 

[lmorin]

Hello-

Last time I checked you "consumer advocates" weren't making the payroll and mortgages. What gives anyone the right to tell a company for how much and to whom they may sell there products to or when or how they should offer warranties. Ya- you can make it into a supreme court case but we're not talking about fraud. Can't anyone be responsible for the "own" actions anymore, you don't like the deal don't buy it, don't complain about it and try to get something for nothing. Nobodies making dive stores sell their products, they apply for a dealer ship and agree to the terms, don't like the terms sell someone else's product. Call the ACLU maybe they'll get you some free dive gear with 10 year warranties. This whole thread looks like a poster child for socialism. Isn't this America?


Rick

Well, you checked in the wrong places. Many of us do make payrolls and mortgages. We also appear to play by a different set of rules than you are advocating. As I understand things here in NY, the anti-price fixing laws apply, and this has nothing to do with fraud. The consumer protection laws are designed to allow consumers to have access to a free market. That is all I, at least, am asking. It is not a free market when manufacturers directly or indirectly regulate the prices at which their gear must be sold. The idea that people should be responsible for their own actions is excellent, but it should apply to the retailers, too. The retailers should be allowed to advertise and sell at prices they deem consistent with good business and prevailing market pressures, without having the opportunity to do so taken away by the manufacturers.

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

Should he let me mark them down and sell more?? Problem is then, the little shop in Tulsa, or where ever, suddenly decides, "I'm not going to carry Zeagle any more since ScubaToys sells them cheap - I'm not making enough margin to keep my lights on if I put people in that BC." I've heard on the board - "Yea, but if he sold them at that price he could sell more!"... True, but in a limited population situation, he will not make up enough profit from the slight increase to equal the margin loss... and he would go out... So instead he switches to selling SeaQuest, or ScubaPro, or whatever.

Thanks Larry. That's a clear way of presenting the other side of the coin.

I guess from a consumer point of view, I remain unconvinced that current approach of manufacturer price-rigging benefits me. And I take the existence of LeisurePro as a sign that other consumers share that opinion.

Time will tell whether the price-rigging model will keep the Tulsa LDS in business or no, but my guess is that unless manufacturers begin to loosen up the price controls, in a few years Tulsa won't have a LDS...except LeisurePro, ScubaToys.com, etc... It may have worked before the Internet, but consumers are always going to go for the best prices, especially if a company like LP can follow through with offering their own warranty. Pretty soon, LP will be bigger than the manufacturers anyway, and if LP's warranty is trusted by consumers as much as the manufacturers, then what do I get at most authorized dealers other than an artificially inflated price?

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

Well, you checked in the wrong places. Many of us do make payrolls and mortgages. We also appear to play by a different set of rules than you are advocating. As I understand things here in NY, the anti-price fixing laws apply, and this has nothing to do with fraud. The consumer protection laws are designed to allow consumers to have access to a free market. That is all I, at least, am asking. It is not a free market when manufacturers directly or indirectly regulate the prices at which their gear must be sold. The idea that people should be responsible for their own actions is excellent, but it should apply to the retailers, too. The retailers should be allowed to advertise and sell at prices they deem consistent with good business and prevailing market pressures, without having the opportunity to do so taken away by the manufacturers.

What he said!