First Post! First BC purchase, a mistake?

[RonFrank]

You might be surprised to find out that the BC didn't come from Zeagle. If memory serves me right LP got sued for producing BC's and using someone's name. There is another world out their.
If the Ranger is made by Zeagle standards, no problem. Just hope that you don't have to return some of those goodies to LP, you might have trouble. LP...love them or hate them.

Please post somethig more than *if memory servers* that indicates that Zeagle sued LeisurePro over BC manufacture.

I believe that Zeagle may have gone after a manufacture for making a Ranger type BCD that had a zip cord like system. I don't have the details, so I won't create more rumors.

Accusing LP of making and selling Fake Zeagle Ranger BC's is rather actionable on a big forum UNLESS you have proof they did such a thing.

Ron

 

[RonFrank]

The Ranger is a heck of a BCD, I dive one. I'd not worry about the warranty. Also LP matches the manufacture warranty, so there you go. They will replace a damaged unit, and repair the few things that would be considered a manufacture defect, or replace the product. Don't expect LP (or Zeagle) to replace your bladder if you dog decides to make it into a chew toy.

As for where LP get's there BC's, I'd *GUESS* from Zeagle. Just becuase they don't want to play nice with manufactures does NOT mean that manufactures will not sell them product.

LP DOES buy in volume, huge volume, and they DO sell REAL stuff, made in the same manufacturing facilities as all the LDS purchase from. Heck, based on my experinece, the instructions, packaging, contents, etc., ALL exactly match what everyone else sells. What LP does NOT do is agree to the price fixing policies that Dive equipment manufactures want to impose on authorized dealers, and I'm betting they have a Rocky relationship with manufactures.

But the manufactures REALLY get the best of both worlds selling to LP. They get to move a LOT of product (SCORE!), AND they don't have to honor the warranty!! Sounds like a BIG win win to me.

Ron

 

[scubatoys]

Please post somethig more than *if memory servers* that indicates that Zeagle sued LeisurePro over BC manufacture.

I believe that Zeagle may have gone after a manufacture for making a Ranger type BCD that had a zip cord like system. I don't have the details, so I won't create more rumors.

Accusing LP of making and selling Fake Zeagle Ranger BC's is rather actionable on a big forum UNLESS you have proof they did such a thing.

Ron

Don't know if LP ever had zeagle knock offs, but they did have Scubapro knock offs... that was probably the suit that was being refered to. It came out when a power inflator failed, and there was talk about a suit against scubapro, then it came out that it wasn't theirs.

 

[ScottZeagle]

Zeagle does not sell to LP.

Zeagle has NEVER sold to LP.

LP has never sold counterfit Zeagle BCs - to the best of my knowledge.

Zeagle has never sued LP.

LP is a "grey market" dealer. They buy from dive shops. They do not buy direct from ANY manufacturer that I know of, except Apollo.

LP offers their own warranty. If you have a problem with your BC, send it back to them and they will fix it (I guess....)

Good luck,

Scott

 

[Scubaroo]

Scott,

Glad you're here. Got a question.

If Zeagle is not selling to LP, and LP is buying from dive shops, *how hard* can it be to track down the stores supplying LP and cut them loose? Do your BCs have serial numbers? Do you record serial numbers in shipments sold to dive shops? If Zeagle was genuine about not wanting grey market sales of Zeagle gear, how simple would it be to play the customer, buy a BC from LP, and then look up the serial number and go after the store that was originally shipped that BC?

Or is it purely a monetary thing - as long as someone is buying Zeagle BCs, regardless of the end recipient, you don't mind that end consumers potentially get screwed over in cases like this where they're not aware the manufacturer is not going to warranty an effectively "brand new" piece of gear simply because the retailer bought it through back channels?

regards.

 

[RonFrank]

As a professional photographer, I've been dealing with the Grey issue for decades.

I've always been MAD that it even exists, but in the world of photography, there are some very valid reasons why it does, and why it's difficult for even Giants (like Nikon/Canon) to eliminate it. However I do believe that it could be done.

I started diving, and found that low and behold, here it is again. Only this time the markets are MUCH smaller, and the reasons for grey that exist in the camera world do not seem valid in the diving world.

Scott, I really don't expect an answer. If you want to share your views on grey or reasons behind it, it may shed some light for some of us, and maybe even provide some reasons to not support grey dealers.

In any event, I sure like my Zeagle products, and have sold a couple new divers on both the regs, and BCD's regardless of where they ended up purchasing them (which I think in one case was our LDS, and another LP).

Ron

Zeagle does not sell to LP.

Zeagle has NEVER sold to LP.

LP has never sold counterfit Zeagle BCs - to the best of my knowledge.

Zeagle has never sued LP.

LP is a "grey market" dealer. They buy from dive shops. They do not buy direct from ANY manufacturer that I know of, except Apollo.

LP offers their own warranty. If you have a problem with your BC, send it back to them and they will fix it (I guess....)

Good luck,

Scott

 

[ScottZeagle]

This is a tough subject, but, as always, I will try to give you honest answers.

1. There are no serial #'s on our BCs.

2. We have cut off many dealers over the years that were "caught" selling to LP.

3. Even after cutting off nearly $200,000 worth of dealers sales, LP continued to get our products. If the demand is there, they will find a way to supply it. The truth is, LP is not going away, even if we don't support them. It kind of feels like beating your head against a brick wall, to be honest with you, but we can't afford to keep cutting off dealers - we would simply go out of business, and any warranty would be worthless!

If a consumer chooses to buy from LP, they are trading price for service and manufacturer warranty - simple as that.

Some dive stores have found ways to compete (Larry from Scuba Toys is a great example) but other LDS simply can't afford to match LP prices and stay in business. This has been discussed on ScubaBoard many times - I don't even need to go there...

Disclaimer: These opinions are my own, and my not represent the thoughts and ideas of Zeagle Systems, Inc and it owners.

 

[jonnythan]

This is a tough subject, but, as always, I will try to give you honest answers.

1. There are no serial #'s on our BCs.

2. We have cut off many dealers over the years that were "caught" selling to LP.

3. Even after cutting off nearly $200,000 worth of dealers sales, LP continued to get our products. If the demand is there, they will find a way to supply it. The truth is, LP is not going away, even if we don't support them. It kind of feels like beating your head against a brick wall, to be honest with you, but we can't afford to keep cutting off dealers - we would simply go out of business, and any warranty would be worthless!

If a consumer chooses to buy from LP, they are trading price for service and manufacturer warranty - simple as that.

Some dive stores have found ways to compete (Larry from Scuba Toys is a great example) but other LDS simply can't afford to match LP prices and stay in business. This has been discussed on ScubaBoard many times - I don't even need to go there...

Disclaimer: These opinions are my own, and my not represent the thoughts and ideas of Zeagle Systems, Inc and it owners.

Why does Zeagle allow internet sales through some vendors but not others? You can't support the LDS by buying from an internet vendor 3000 miles away, even if they run a nice scuba shop wherever they are.

 

[ScottZeagle]

Any Zeagle dealer is allowed to sell on the internet. Period.

We do not allow some but not others - they ALL are allowed.

I will tell you guys up front - I can't spend all day fielding questions about LP and the internet. Please don't be offended if I do not respond to every question. I will as I can...

If you have questions regarding most scuba manufacturers internet policies, please call Toll Free (877) 728-2243 and ask for Larry!!!

Scott

 

[The Kraken]

Good shot, Scott !!!!!!!