First (and last) regulator

[BoltSnap]

Well, if my supply lines ever dry up for my fairly large fleet of Scubapro regs then maybe a company like Deep 6, Hog, or better yet DGX with their Xtra balanced piston reg might be on the horizon. Maybe smaller is better, they can fly under the radar.
I love my Scubapro’s but their parts games are more than I can take and I don’t like being treated like an imbecile. My thing is I don’t trust anybody else to work on my regs, but I’m tired of always looking for some clandestine source for contraband parts kits.
It makes me feel like a sleaze ball underworld criminal. They’ve done a pretty good job of sealing up parts but not good enough. There’s always the back mafia meeting room at Gino’s Bar or the dark web?
I just want to be able to buy parts freely and ligitimately. So far with my MK5’s and 109’s/108’s I can sort of do that with after market kits from various other sources. But time doesn’t stop and eventually they will be too old and obsolete and I will have to find something else.

My friend,

You are taking this far too personally. Take a step back please.

 

[stuartv]

For the ones that do want to self service their gear, they should be able to take a factory class (which they would pay for) and earn a certification and have a cert number that gives them access to buy parts.

That is not what I responded to. I responded to the suggestion that each reg come with a service manual and service kit in the box.

Also, just because none of the manufacturers HAS been sued doesn't meant that fear of that is not the reason they do what they do. They might even argue that not having been sued is evidence that what they are doing is a good approach.

I also agree with the suggestion that owners of Deep6 Gear regs are not a good sample population to judge from. The population is small. The population of Deep6 Gear reg owners that have bothered to service their own is even smaller. And overall, that population is probably heavily skewed towards being people who could and would do it correctly if they did service their own. Which I don't think is at all the same was that you'd see if every ScubaPro reg came with a service manual and service kit in the box.

I am not sure if you own Atomic Ti reg currently. If you have them, and if you go measure the weight, you will find weight saving is minimal. First stage brass vs Ti different is about 6oz. 2nd stage different is about 1oz. Total saving on a set of reg, 1st+2x 2nd, 8oz. Nothing against Ti, I have some, just cannot use weight saving to justify the cost. LOL.

I have a couple of buddies that have T2 and T3 sets. I've held them. They sure do feel a lot more than 8 oz lighter than, say, the Z2 set I had.

Regardless, even if the weight savings is not huge, I still want one because it's the combo of weight savings, (presumably) superior breathing, and corrosion resistance that appeals to me. All those things together in one reg set compared to my current Halcyon regs or my old Z2 set.

Not letting people to buy part for self service is absolutely 100% protectionism. first, it is not even difficult to DIY reg service. People who bought them know enough what to do. And the fact is people are buying them today, you don't see these diver perishing left and right kind of shows it isn't as dangerous as what we were told by the manufacturers

Is it? Or does that just show us that the way service kits are currently controlled is working? That the "wrong" people (i.e. Joe Schmoe that buys a ScubaPro reg set) are not actually getting service kits and manuals for their regs?

I could be off base, but I feel like the people buying Deep6 Gear regs are not really the same kind of divers as the average person buying a ScubaPro reg. I suspect that the average ScubaPro reg purchaser has not even heard of Deep6 Gear - because they are not SO interested in the technnical, gearhead aspects of scuba equipment that they've bothered to research regs and learn about Deep6 Gear.

 

[Angelo Farina]

I could be off base, but I feel like the people buying Deep6 Gear regs are not really the same kind of divers as the average person buying a ScubaPro reg. I suspect that the average ScubaPro reg purchaser has not even heard of Deep6 Gear - because they are not SO interested in the technnical, gearhead aspects of scuba equipment that they've bothered to research regs and learn about Deep6 Gear.

Deep6 is almost unknown here in Europe.
Here I see many divers purchasing Scubapro regs for the following reasons:
1) They are supported for decades, many MK2, MK5, 109, 156 and G250 are still in use and can be serviced with current parts 40+ years after having been manufactured
2) Technical manuals and videos showing how to service them are easily available on the Internet, making it very simple to service for everyone with a minimal background in mechanics and without the need of following a course.
3) spare parts and service kits are easily found in a large number of shops all around the world, or on the Internet - and you can use parts of the current production models for servicing regs of 40 years ago.

So, in my experience, Scubapro regs are very appreciated exactly by that small group of divers who prefer to take care and responsibility of their life-supporting apparatus.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Deep6 is almost unknown here in Europe.
Here I see many divers purchasing Scubapro regs for the following reasons:
1) They are supported for decades, many MK2, MK5, 109, 156 and G250 are still in use and can be serviced with current parts 40+ years after having been manufactured
2) Technical manuals and videos showing how to service them are easily available on the Internet, making it very simple to service for everyone with a minimal background in mechanics and without the need of following a course.
3) spare parts and service kits are easily found in a large number of shops all around the world, or on the Internet - and you can use parts of the current production models for servicing regs of 40 years ago.

So, in my experience, Scubapro regs are very appreciated exactly by that small group of divers who prefer to take care and responsibility of their life-supporting apparatus.

Well that’s great in Europe, but that doesn’t help us here in the US. For some reason they treat us like children here, and the damn company is originally American!!

 

[Lorenzoid]

Deep6 isn't the only reg manufacturer that sanctions user-servicing, am I right? I know HOG does. And what about Dive-Rite?

I think part of the equation is that none of them as yet include a service manual "in the box." (Maybe this is just a hypothetical you were referring to--I didn't see where in the thread this was first suggested.) They might include a parts kit in the box, but that could just as well be used by a dive shop tech as it could by the reg's owner. The Deep6 service manual isn't in the box, it has to be searched for and found online. Nothing in the box can clearly be interpreted as suggesting that the reg's owner service their reg. HOG's is not even online, as far as I know--I believe you are expected to take the service course to get the manual.

I could be off base, but I feel like the people buying Deep6 Gear regs are not really the same kind of divers as the average person buying a ScubaPro reg. I suspect that the average ScubaPro reg purchaser has not even heard of Deep6 Gear - because they are not SO interested in the technnical, gearhead aspects of scuba equipment that they've bothered to research regs and learn about Deep6 Gear.

Yes, my thinking exactly. In the USA.

 

[Lorenzoid]

For some reason they treat us like children here ....

I think we all know what the reason is.

 

[eelnoraa]

That is not what I responded to. I responded to the suggestion that each reg come with a service manual and service kit in the box.

Also, just because none of the manufacturers HAS been sued doesn't meant that fear of that is not the reason they do what they do. They might even argue that not having been sued is evidence that what they are doing is a good approach.

I also agree with the suggestion that owners of Deep6 Gear regs are not a good sample population to judge from. The population is small. The population of Deep6 Gear reg owners that have bothered to service their own is even smaller. And overall, that population is probably heavily skewed towards being people who could and would do it correctly if they did service their own. Which I don't think is at all the same was that you'd see if every ScubaPro reg came with a service manual and service kit in the box.



I have a couple of buddies that have T2 and T3 sets. I've held them. They sure do feel a lot more than 8 oz lighter than, say, the Z2 set I had.

Regardless, even if the weight savings is not huge, I still want one because it's the combo of weight savings, (presumably) superior breathing, and corrosion resistance that appeals to me. All those things together in one reg set compared to my current Halcyon regs or my old Z2 set.



Is it? Or does that just show us that the way service kits are currently controlled is working? That the "wrong" people (i.e. Joe Schmoe that buys a ScubaPro reg set) are not actually getting service kits and manuals for their regs?

I could be off base, but I feel like the people buying Deep6 Gear regs are not really the same kind of divers as the average person buying a ScubaPro reg. I suspect that the average ScubaPro reg purchaser has not even heard of Deep6 Gear - because they are not SO interested in the technnical, gearhead aspects of scuba equipment that they've bothered to research regs and learn about Deep6 Gear.

I have both Ti and brass atomic, 1st and 2nd. 8oz is the measured difference. If you search, you will see pictures of the measurements, maybe more than a few times. I think the feel of hand is less accurate then a kitchen counter top scale.

Inthink we can believe what we believe. And being able to believe Ti will make a practical difference in weight, performance and corrosion is not a bad way to justify to spend the money, if the justification is really needed.

 

[runsongas]

@Eric Sedletzky the difference with europe is that people aren't suing each other left and right

 

[rsingler]

@rsingler would be the only one I would trust to properly pack a SPEC reg, and I’m sure he has better things to do then to work on my old crap.

Hey, Eric! I'll fill your Mk5! I even have an experimental SPEC boot that @raftingtigger molded. I'm happier with the SPEC groove on the Mk10 than the Mk5, but they both work.
I'm in Cayman Brac right now. I'm diving my SPEC Mk10. It hasn't been serviced in 8 years now, except for annual removal/replace of the yoke bolt. Still crisp and tight. Nothing like a sharp knife edge. Much different than the rounded knife edges of the Mk25 and Atomic.
Been going thru second stage after second stage, trying to see what I like best. Just heard from my LDS that the TFX has been shipped!

 

[Angelo Farina]

Well that’s great in Europe, but that doesn’t help us here in the US. For some reason they treat us like children here, and the damn company is originally American!!

I know a number of US divers who buy Scubapro regs exactly for their ease of service and availability of spare parts.
Where exactly you perceive such a difference among countries?
One of the nice thing of Scubapro is exactly that they are widespread all around the world and you find spare parts and shops supporting them almost everywhere...
Only thing which really differs is the prices.
In US some goods are overpriced compared to the rest of the world. Just think to drugs and medical devices and procedures...
On the other hand, the US price for gasoline and diesel fuel is 1/4 than in Europe.