Fire on safari boat Suzana in Egypt (Red Sea Aggressor)

[Wookie]

Absolutely not, and I'm surprised by how ineffective Aggressor's crisis management has been since the tragedy.

Going back to your initial comment, yes I have gone through most comments since page 14, and I can see Mr. Speaker made positive impression on you. What I referred to earlier was a framework where thorough due diligence is carried out (not just profitability analysis), recommendations are made and executed, and adequate monitoring is put in place. Frankly, this is more for the benefits of brand owners, and it's disappointing Aggressor seems to have failed to appreciate it.

This could also be enforced through contract, which no doubt Aggressor signs with any and every franchisee.

I might know a thing or two, but I'm definitely not an expert, and I'm sure there are far more qualified people in the diving community who can go into great length on what a robust system should be.

I guess I I’d call myself an expert on liveaboard operations. I would expect that a lot of other folks would as well. Some absolutely detest me, and wouldn’t ever agree with me, but I’ve only had one person question my safety record.

Your expectation of Aggressor Fleet and the reality of what they actually do and offer are not quite miles apart, but they really don’t jibe either. Aggressor owns many Caribbean dive boats, including one I sold them. One of their owned boats (Carib Dancer, in the Bahamas) is the subject of much angst and many hundreds of posts regarding their terrible material condition, horrendous crew, and abysmal safety. That’s a boat they own, which I’m happy to say is doing much better now. Their franchised boats in the Pacific in Kona, Palau, etc. were their first boats franchised and Joe (the owner) has held a close relationship with the owner of Aggressor since the original owner of Aggressor (Wayne Brown is not the first owner, the man’s name was Paul Haines).

Although Aggressor Fleet owns some boats, with the requisite fleet captains and fleet engineers (friends of mine, and I was friends with the first fleet captain and operations manager), they also have either franchise or licensing agreements with other vessels. I am not privy to the specifics of those agreements, as I never wanted to be a part of Aggressor Fleet, and the feeling was mutual.

But that’s do know this. When you are a franchisee, you are spending 30% of your gross for 2 things. The first is access to the booking system, including office staff, and a network of travel agents. The second is the aggressor name and advertising. While I don’t know specifically if there are any requirements to maintain the boat in any specific condition, Aggressor sets a very low bar if so, considering the condition of some of their own owned vessels.

What you seem to expect is what you see in the slick presentation at your dive shop or in the full page ads on the back of your dive magazine. And it’s true that those pictures are taken when the boat looks its finest coming out of the yard, in real life the reality is quite different. When I saw the Belize Aggressor last month I was shocked at the shoddy condition and amazed that no one seemed to be doing anything about it. I, too, have an expectation. Soot on the side of the boat like they had a busted engine didn’t meet my expectation.

So, while you appear to think that Aggressor owes someone something, some standard of care or some standard of operation, I would suggest that the reality is that what the boat owner is actually buying is use of a name and access to a customer list and booking network, and Aggressor Fleet is collecting 30% of the revenue for those things, no more, no less.

But I could be way off base.

 

[Land Fish]

I guess I I’d call myself an expert on liveaboard operations. I would expect that a lot of other folks would as well. Some absolutely detest me, and wouldn’t ever agree with me, but I’ve only had one person question my safety record.

Your expectation of Aggressor Fleet and the reality of what they actually do and offer are not quite miles apart, but they really don’t jibe either. Aggressor owns many Caribbean dive boats, including one I sold them. One of their owned boats (Carib Dancer, in the Bahamas) is the subject of much angst and many hundreds of posts regarding their terrible material condition, horrendous crew, and abysmal safety. That’s a boat they own, which I’m happy to say is doing much better now. Their franchised boats in the Pacific in Kona, Palau, etc. were their first boats franchised and Joe (the owner) has held a close relationship with the owner of Aggressor since the original owner of Aggressor (Wayne Brown is not the first owner, the man’s name was Paul Haines).

Although Aggressor Fleet owns some boats, with the requisite fleet captains and fleet engineers (friends of mine, and I was friends with the first fleet captain and operations manager), they also have either franchise or licensing agreements with other vessels. I am not privy to the specifics of those agreements, as I never wanted to be a part of Aggressor Fleet, and the feeling was mutual.

But that’s do know this. When you are a franchisee, you are spending 30% of your gross for 2 things. The first is access to the booking system, including office staff, and a network of travel agents. The second is the aggressor name and advertising. While I don’t know specifically if there are any requirements to maintain the boat in any specific condition, Aggressor sets a very low bar if so, considering the condition of some of their own owned vessels.

What you seem to expect is what you see in the slick presentation at your dive shop or in the full page ads on the back of your dive magazine. And it’s true that those pictures are taken when the boat looks its finest coming out of the yard, in real life the reality is quite different. When I saw the Belize Aggressor last month I was shocked at the shoddy condition and amazed that no one seemed to be doing anything about it. I, too, have an expectation. Soot on the side of the boat like they had a busted engine didn’t meet my expectation.

So, while you appear to think that Aggressor owes someone something, some standard of care or some standard of operation, I would suggest that the reality is that what the boat owner is actually buying is use of a name and access to a customer list and booking network, and Aggressor Fleet is collecting 30% of the revenue for those things, no more, no less.

But I could be way off base.

Thank you very much for sharing this, and it is truly eye opening.

I've seen a few sales and purchase agreements and licensing agreements (nothing diving or dive boat related though), still I had expected Aggressor's agreements to be along those lines, given it's an American company and how litigious the system is. I have to admit that I'm astounded by how low the bar is.

This piece of knowledge will help me in selecting my next liveaboard. So thank you.

Scubaboard never ceases to amaze me.

Apologies for sidetracking the conversation.

 

[ScubaDiverChick84]

Read this article here: California boat fire: How blaze could incinerate a 75-foot boat so fast?
Where the owner of the aggressor is commenting on the conception fleet tragedy.

Wayne Brown, owner of Aggressor Adventures, a global dive boat operator based out of Georgia, was skeptical oxygen fueled the disaster. Brown, who doesn’t know those involved with the Conception, said the concentration of added oxygen “doesn’t create additional risk.”

“All ours are either aluminum or steel,” Brown said, “so fire doesn’t have much material to spread with.”

 

[NAUI Wowie]

After having been on Aggressor boats 4 times, for 5 weeks, I'm extremely disappointed that they have not released a single detail of this accident. My opinion of Aggressor is shifting, nothing to do with the boats I have been on. Why wouldn't you disclose this unfortunate event and provide details?

Quite the opposite reaction from Truth Aquatics huh. You know Truth Aquatics is following this thread closely. I think they have been forthright, open, and heartbroken. Whereas Aggressor fleet is hoping to sweep it under the rug. Could you imagine aggressor suspending operations for even one single boat for any time at all?

Sadly Truth Aquatics may be put out of business when large operations like aggressor that do not care continue to function.

 

[parrotheaddiver]

I guess I I’d call myself an expert on liveaboard operations. I would expect that a lot of other folks would as well. Some absolutely detest me, and wouldn’t ever agree with me, but I’ve only had one person question my safety record.

Your expectation of Aggressor Fleet and the reality of what they actually do and offer are not quite miles apart, but they really don’t jibe either. Aggressor owns many Caribbean dive boats, including one I sold them. One of their owned boats (Carib Dancer, in the Bahamas) is the subject of much angst and many hundreds of posts regarding their terrible material condition, horrendous crew, and abysmal safety. That’s a boat they own, which I’m happy to say is doing much better now. Their franchised boats in the Pacific in Kona, Palau, etc. were their first boats franchised and Joe (the owner) has held a close relationship with the owner of Aggressor since the original owner of Aggressor (Wayne Brown is not the first owner, the man’s name was Paul Haines).

Although Aggressor Fleet owns some boats, with the requisite fleet captains and fleet engineers (friends of mine, and I was friends with the first fleet captain and operations manager), they also have either franchise or licensing agreements with other vessels. I am not privy to the specifics of those agreements, as I never wanted to be a part of Aggressor Fleet, and the feeling was mutual.

But that’s do know this. When you are a franchisee, you are spending 30% of your gross for 2 things. The first is access to the booking system, including office staff, and a network of travel agents. The second is the aggressor name and advertising. While I don’t know specifically if there are any requirements to maintain the boat in any specific condition, Aggressor sets a very low bar if so, considering the condition of some of their own owned vessels.

What you seem to expect is what you see in the slick presentation at your dive shop or in the full page ads on the back of your dive magazine. And it’s true that those pictures are taken when the boat looks its finest coming out of the yard, in real life the reality is quite different. When I saw the Belize Aggressor last month I was shocked at the shoddy condition and amazed that no one seemed to be doing anything about it. I, too, have an expectation. Soot on the side of the boat like they had a busted engine didn’t meet my expectation.

So, while you appear to think that Aggressor owes someone something, some standard of care or some standard of operation, I would suggest that the reality is that what the boat owner is actually buying is use of a name and access to a customer list and booking network, and Aggressor Fleet is collecting 30% of the revenue for those things, no more, no less.

But I could be way off base.

and aren't you glad to be out of da' bidness' ;-P

 

[NAUI Wowie]

He paints a picture of a crew that worked very hard to make the customers happy but were poorly trained and were lax in adhering to safety policies. Also a boat in run down condition near end of life cycle and suffering from poor maintenance such that things were constantly failing or breaking.

They worked hard for large tips however when it came to the real job of keeping the ship safe and afloat well......

 

[NAUI Wowie]

I'm quite sure that almost no one in Egypt has heard of the Conception fire.

Id wager thats incorrect and every liveaboard captain in egypt knows about it. Just like every single airline commercial jet pilot knows about every commercial passenger jet that goes down.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Hello fellow divers, I was on the Red Sea Aggressor that caught fire last week. I am the friend and roommate of the amazing and beloved diver that died due to the negligence of the Aggressor company who have been attempting to malign and victim blame her from the very beginning. Ahmed, the owner/rep was surprisingly allowed in all of our initial Egyptian police interviews; and while representing the Aggressor company, Ahmed repeatedly tried to twist, lie, and mistranslate what we said to the translator and to the Arabic speaking policeman.

First, our friend, the victim, did not return to the room for a computer. Second, the crew did not maintain or perform a 24hr fire watch (attested to by another diver) as we had been told by the crew that they did during our Day 1 safety briefing, and is the norm on boats. NONE of the fire alarms worked. There was NO alarm and NO bell, verbal or other crew alert of a fire or danger. We, the surviving divers are alive only because we woke on our own accord due to the suffocating smell of smoke and made our way to and through our below deck emergency hatch on our own. The crew did not rescue us except to pick us up in the zodiacs after we had to jump overboard just after midnight to save our lives. Although our crew miraculously got another zodiac in the water and got us out of the water and to a nearby ship, it was the a fellow diver and crew from the nearby moored rescuing ship Emperor Asmaa, that shouted for us to jump overboard, just before the tanks started exploding.

The Egyptian prosecutors appropriately arrested Ahmed from the Aggressor, the day after, and I feel confident they will continue to investigate this horrific, senseless and 100% preventable tragedy fully and hold all those negligent responsible for our friend's death, and our near-deaths.

And, as if things couldn't have gotten worse, the Red Sea Aggressor treated us horribly. Despite promising us clothing and toiletries upon arrival at the hotel hours after docking and the police interviews, they left us in wet clothes and towels and shoeless for 15hrs after the fire. A generous Egyptian hotel shop owner, Ramen "Marco" took pity on us and offered all of us our choice of free shoes and clothing. I cannot thank him or the other strangers enough, those in addition to Marco who also stepped in to help: besides the rescue, Emperor Asmaa's crew and guests that gave us towels and their own dry clothes and emotional support; Charlotte Smurthwaite from the Sunrise Marina Resort guest services did everything she could to make things more bearable; a German guest in the hotel dining room that went to back to his room and returned with 3 pieces of clothing for a shirtless male diver, because the only shirt the diver owned was still drying after being washed the night before and he was almost denied entry to eat; and when a UK hotel guest Derek Gale heard me begging the Aggressor company over the hotel lobby phone to give us more than the paltry $123 they finally gave us at 3pm after the fire, which didn't go far considering our needs after losing everything, even if just a "loan" not a handout, so we could buy and have access to a cell for international calls to call loved ones and make arrangements, buy a single pair of underwear, and change of clothes, medication, etc, - to which they told me "they had given us all 'enough'" and refused us even a loan of money until we could get replacement bank cards (BTW, most of us didn't even have single piece of underwear until 2.75days later), Derek returned with hundreds of British Pounds; also a big thanks to all those in the USA FBI and Embassy in Cairo that treated us so warmly, escorted us, expedited our replacement passports and provided us with other necessities and support which the Aggressor repeatedly refused to us.

At one point, Red Sea Aggressor owner David Home even physically attacked and hurt me me, in an attempt to wrestle one of the two international phones they allowed the survivors to use out of my hand after I told him I wanted to speak to his boss and he refused to make the call himself. He had the nerve to call the US Embassy and claim I attacked him. I'm a USAF Veteran, and if my unimpeachable 24 years of civil service isn't enough, I welcome a lie detector to prove him wrong.

Regardless of your experience with or impression of the Aggressor Company world-wide in the past, I hope you boycott them out of principle of the matter...not just for their blatant negligence of a fellow diver's death, but for their victim blaming, which is a slap in the face of our friend and her family, and for the inhumane and insensitive way the Aggressor treated us, the survivors, after the fact. Plus, I don't want any other diver to ever go through this or be treated so horribly like we have been. There are plenty of other great diving companies, please vote with your wallet and go with anyone else besides the Aggressor Fleet. We trusted them by name for the quality and safety record a USA run company represents. If they are willing to rubber-stamp franchises without holding them to basic safety standards, none of us, as guests are safe on any of the Aggressor fleet. Laughably, they've offered us vouchers for a future trip with them as if I'd set foot on an Aggressor death-trap again.

Please post this statement to any sites that repeat the Aggressor's lies and blame the victim, or post a link in a reply to me so I can ask for a correction, we already have done so with another scuba article and they have respected our request for a change to the truth. Please warn all divers you know, and spread the truth from the survivors, on this matter. Eat, sleep, dive, and hopefully survive.

Any of us could have been your friend and roomate. I will never use Aggressor and I do travel to locations where they operate.

 

[KathyV]

The Aggressor CEO Wayne Brown has posted this message on their website:

Our Deepest Sympathies
Aggressor Adventures is deeply saddened by the unfortunate events that took place in the Red Sea last week, resulting in the loss of a diver’s life. To her family and friends, we extend our deepest sympathies and condolences.

Since the events, we have diligently worked with local resources to provide for the immediate needs of the divers aboard the vessel. This included coordinating with local government and regional embassies, to ensure these guests received the appropriate documentation to get home safely as we continue to work towards replacing their lost possessions. But there’s more work to be done. Aggressor and the vessel team on the ground are working closely with local authorities on the ongoing investigation to determine the specifics of the incident while separating facts from misinformation. It is our sincerest hope to have more information to share soon.

In the meantime, know that we hold the vessels and crews to the highest standards of safety and service, and we’ll continue to do everything in our power to ensure our guests enjoy their adventures with us.

 

[DandyDon]

The Aggressor CEO Wayne Brown has posted this message on their website:

And lied...

Since the events, we have diligently worked with local resources to provide for the immediate needs of the divers aboard the vessel.

Survivors reported here being left barefoot in wet clothes, no money, when sent to a hotel.