Filmmaker Rob Stewart dies off Alligator Reef

[doctormike]

The certifying agencies could, if they were so inclined, create such a project and make continual reporting a requirement of divemaster/instructor certification. There would always be the potential for noncompliance or dishonesty, but something would be better than nothing.

I think that what makes the Australian report so great is that it is done by an independent agency that has absolutely no interest in whether the results negatively affect sales of a unit, booking of an instructor, choice of agency or even diving in general. It's just an analysis by a third party with no skin in the game, which is what makes it great. The OUC thing shows that it can be done by dive industry people, but much better if done externally.

 

[St John the Diver]

You know, it's really a shame that there isn't more of an organized and professional approach to accident analysis in this country. I know that everyone is worried about the government coming in and ruining things, but if you want to see how this is done right, look at how the Australians and the Canadians do it.

This accident report from the New South Wales (Australia) coroner's court is a work of art. Seriously, read it to see how an incredibly exhaustive analysis is done, written to be understandable even by a non-diving reader: https://cognitasresearch.files.word...the-inquest-into-the-death-of-philip-gray.pdf

And the Ontario Underwater Council (not a government agency) does similar things. Their reports are always very helpful.

I guess it is the litigation environment and our individualistic frontier culture that makes us resistant to these things. The OUC was set up in the 1950s by local scuba clubs and businesses.

But conjecture here in this forum on scubaboard is also helpful, even if we don't know exactly what happened in this particular case. That's why the forum exists, and I have learned a lot reading some of these posts...

Gregg Stanton up in Wakulla put together a volunteer group years ago to do this. He received some small support from DAN but RESA fought it tooth and nail. The manufacturers all seem to not to be interested in having independent (i.e. third party) investigations happen. I don't know what the status of the group is now. I suppose one could call and ask. Greggs been slowing down a bit and it might be moribund.

 

[Steve_C]

The certifying agencies could, if they were so inclined, create such a project and make continual reporting a requirement of divemaster/instructor certification. There would always be the potential for noncompliance or dishonesty, but something would be better than nothing.

Dive pros are required to file a report on any incident/accident they are part of or even observe. At least for PADI. What happens with that information is something else.

 

[kelemvor]

The certifying agencies could, if they were so inclined, create such a project and make continual reporting a requirement of divemaster/instructor certification. There would always be the potential for noncompliance or dishonesty, but something would be better than nothing.

Go check out the link @doctormike posted. It goes WAY beyond a collection of reported incidents. Deep analysis of all aspects of the accident. Thoughtful conclusions are drawn. It's all written in laymen's terms. I think if an agency were involved they'd likely try to use it as a tool to make money. In so doing they may be less inclined to allow non members to have access to all available resources. I see it as something a widow might start with an endowment or something along those lines.

 

[OceanOpportunity]

My initial reaction to the incident was hypercapnea, which should still be ruled out, though the hypoxia theory seems substantiated. I have done a fair bit of deep gas diving on a rEvo, and like other posters, have had concerns with the inability to isolate the ADV.

In practice, I personally never allow hypoxic diluent to enter the rebreather until at least 20fsw. I achieve this with a ball valve which was habit/practice borrowed from the old CCR2000 days. Shallow diluent was 'up', deep diluent was 'down', and whichever diluent is selected, that is teh one that also feeds my BOV. Very simple and intuitive, always provides an immediately breathable OC gas supply, and I use this method with all of my CCR diving. Those first/last 20fsw are so dangerous from any number of perspectives, so I often wonder why more effort isnt made to engineer any extra risk out of that equation. 10/50 doesnt belong anywhere near the surface, so keep it away!

The information really needed is a summation of remaining cylinder pressures (both O2 and dil), and any pre-dive checklists that will reveal something about sorb use.

 

[St John the Diver]

My initial reaction to the incident was hypercapnea, which should still be ruled out, though the hypoxia theory seems substantiated. I have done a fair bit of deep gas diving on a rEvo, and like other posters, have had concerns with the inability to isolate the ADV.

In practice, I personally never allow hypoxic diluent to enter the rebreather until at least 20fsw. I achieve this with a ball valve which was habit/practice borrowed from the old CCR2000 days. Shallow diluent was 'up', deep diluent was 'down', and whichever diluent is selected, that is teh one that also feeds my BOV. Very simple and intuitive, always provides an immediately breathable OC gas supply, and I use this method with all of my CCR diving. Those first/last 20fsw are so dangerous from any number of perspectives, so I often wonder why more effort isnt made to engineer any extra risk out of that equation. 10/50 doesnt belong anywhere near the surface, so keep it away!

The information really needed is a summation of remaining cylinder pressures (both O2 and dil), and any pre-dive checklists that will reveal something about sorb use.

Mike, that is how it should be done. I was taught to never have an open circuit regulator in my mouth that I can't breath safely. An ADV lined up to your rig is exactly that. Isolating the ADV and using manually added 02 to get to 20 feet and then popping open the ADV is the alternate method.

With the rEvo I had several freeflowing ADV incidents when jumping in from a big boat (8 foot drop to the water). It scared me.

 

[uwxplorer]

O2 will be zero because you have a CMF orifice. It won't tell you anything. The Petrel will, assuming the cells were working at the time.

 

[OceanOpportunity]

O2 will be zero because you have a CMF orifice. It won't tell you anything. The Petrel will, assuming the cells were working at the time.

...assuming the orifice was not plugged, which some people do. there's still too much information missing to speculate. There are obviously a wealth of troublesome details that the community can and will benefit from, but still too early to speculate.

 

[Stoo]

Not tying a buoy to the line and coming the next day (or week) to retrieve it was a missed opportunity, to say things nicely.

I made a comment along these lines on a discussion that is kind of paralleling this one... I have a boat. Sometimes the anchor gets stuck, and since we're all full of bubbles, we contemplate leaving it. We almost always get it, but I think in the past 35 years of operating my own dive boat, perhaps twice, I have tied a bumper onto the end of the line, and tossed it over the side. And it's always been there next day...

Damn, I really hate the thought of having lost Rob for the sake a few hundred feet of rope and a hunk of metal.

 

[CuzzA]

Damn, I really hate the thought of having lost Rob for the sake a few hundred feet of rope and a hunk of metal.

I believe that is formally called "Temporarily Corrupted Motivation Paradigms" as explained at 44:39 from a presentation I posted earlier in this thread.