Filmmaker Rob Stewart dies off Alligator Reef

[JohnnyH]

This entire situation is definitely sad. I just skimmed through 48 pages of posts with the usual blend of interesting, crap, horible misinformed, etc.

I am a DSO who is absolutely focused on proper training and technique. I'm trained in and experienced in OC hypoxic trimix - have done high profile dives like the Doria, and have good experience in cold water diving in the 200-300 range. I am also a MOD 1 rEvo diver (as well as a MOD 1 Sentinel diver and am 1 hour shy of a MOD 1 on the Prism 2). I was working on my MOD 2 Evo in 2015 and got severely bent (that's off topic, but anyone interested can see my presentation on the experience here ).

I've also had the opportunity to spend time with Rob, and his loss is quite sad - and on the grand scale, the loss of his work with regards to shark conservation is a tragedy.

I know that in the vacuum of real information, speculation tries to fill the space, so I've discarded much of what's been said here. However there are some interesting points.

The ADV theory is interesting. One of the first things I did with my rEvo was to disable the ADV altogether. I loosened the lever to desensitize it, then ended flipping the lever over on itself altogether so that it was fully disabled. I just do DIL add manually because I hate fighting it.

10/50 is a dangerous DIL at 1ATA if you aren't careful. Especially if you are working / tired / stressed / etc.

From what I was initially told by some people who where connected with folks surrounding the event, it was a instructor (Sotis) / student pair. This is important because you need to find commonality between two vastly different individuals in experience / age / fitness / mental state / etc - because it seems (not 100% verified though) that both experienced a similar form of distress, with deadly results for the person who was in the water rather than on the boat.

In the student / instructor pair, the student will emulate the instructor. So one fault tree leads down the path of the instructor (Sotis) doing something operationally flawed and the student (Stewart) copying it, leading to a double event and a fatality.

My initial thought was hypercapnia, though it would be surprising to not see evidence of it from observers. If Rob indeed signaled an OK, then he must not have had a respiration rate out of control (hypercapnia). Hyperoxia is definitely almost a complete 0% probability. But hypoxia from a loop not flushed with O2, compounded with the exhaustion of a three deep dive day, and if work had just been done on this dive (IIRC the dive was to release the anchor - I've done it on large vessels and it can involve some intense physical effort) and it was a bounce with the corresponding potential drop in PO2 due to ambient pressure reduction from surfacing - then it's possible hypoxia occurred, especially if they were staying on loop (without flushing it with O2) and "breathing off the ADV" (or even just pushing the on-board DIL button instead of the O2 button on the MAV).

With Rob probably being in better shape and definitely younger than Sotis, perhaps Sotis manifested hypoxia first and Rob, as I know I would have done if I were him, may have urged Sotis onto the boat first, and dutifully stayed on the loop, effectively reducing his PO2 to below 0.16 until he lost consciousness. Coupled with the stress of the situation, the task loading inherent with deep CCR dives (multiple bailouts, etc), it's possible he hadn't made himself positive (I had heard he was diving dry, and therefore his suit was probably empty in the warm Keys upper temps and the fact he probably had his dump open). So LOC, and not positive, with his loop in his mouth. If he passes out with these factors then his loop falls out (without a gag strap), floods the unit, and the inherent buoyancy of his loop is lost and he sinks.

I can picture all of these elements happening - but it's only speculation and won't bring him back...

 

[RichardC]

This is in conflict with my experience (I dove one for many years, only retiring it this summer).

John, I don't know what to say.

I have had two rEvos and have done the same in each case. There is a (admittedly small and metric) nut in the centre of the ADV lever that you can adjust to alter the cracking pressure. I just adjust, try it, adjust again till I'm happy. I will admit that it is too loose as supplied, but I'm guessing that is a CE thing.

It's also easy to disable altogether pre-dive if you prefer. To be honest, I only see ADVs as a backstop anyway, manually controlling your loop is always preferable, so I set it tight.

Keep safe

Rich

 

[divingjd]

Here are some thoughts on legal aspects of a situation like this and, in particular, why people don't talk about it. It's evident from earlier discussions that some people reading and posting in this thread are very familiar with the legal aspects and that others are not. These thoughts are directed primarily to those who are not.

• It is very possible that there will be litigation over this incident. I'm not saying it's likely and I'm not saying anything about whether anyone should be held liable. I am just saying that in a situation like this, the smart thing to do is to assume litigation is coming.
• I would expect the the boat operator would take the position that it was just providing a taxi service and should not be liable, and that the boat operator had everyone sign waivers or releases just in case that argument doesn't work. There are lots of ways to get around waivers (not to say they are worthless or that they are ironclad, just that sometimes they work and sometimes they don't), so even having the waivers may not protect the boat operator.
• I do not know what Florida state law or the Coast Guard has to say about the duties of the boat operator, so I can't comment on that.
• Even if the boat operator should not be liable, that does not mean it cannot be sued. Early in my legal career, a smart and crafty litigator told me that any idiot with a crayon and a hundred bucks could sue you (meaning all you had to do was sign a complaint and pay the court filing fee). There are very few things you can do to reduce the chances of getting sued. You can be prepared for it if it happens and try to put yourself in the best position possible to win on the merits, but you can't stop the plaintiff from going to the courthouse and filing the papers.
• Dive buddies and instructors have duties to their buddies and students. If you are an instructor and you are in the water with a student or former student and something goes wrong, there is a risk that you will be sued for breaching your duty as a buddy, or your duty as a instructor, or both.
• That means that everybody who was on the scene (and maybe some who weren't on the scene) is probably thinking like a defendant right now.
  
• It is a near certainty that any instructor and any dive boat operator carries insurance. The insurance policy will require the policy-holder to notify the insurer. Exactly when is determined by the language of the policy and how it has been interpreted. There is rarely a downside to notifying the insurer early. When a body has been recovered, it's probably time to notify the insurer. Notifying the insurer is not an admission of fault or liability. It just means an event has occurred for which there may be insurance coverage. The downside of not notifying the insurer is that you will not be covered by the insurance. The insurer may provide a lawyer to its policy-holder. The insurer may insist on keeping everything confidential.
• Whether it's a lawyer provided by an insurance company or the potential defendant's own lawyer, the potential defendant will probably be advised by counsel not to make any public statements. It may be necessary to speak to the Coast Guard or other authorities, but that should be done only as required and not voluntarily.
• Speaking out will probably not create liability, but what you say can be used as evidence later. It's best to make statements with the advice of counsel.
• In addition, regardless of the righteousness of your position, if someone sues you, you will have to defend yourself (or your insurer will have to defend you). That will cost an uncomfortable sum of money and be a giant PITA. This is one of the reasons people (and their insurers) settle claims without admitting liability and insist on confidentiality, even when the defendant has a good case. It's often more cost-effective and less annoying to throw some money at the plaintiff to go away than to prove that you're right.
• That's why people aren't talking now. In a situation like this, the only people who are not worried about getting sued are the family of the deceased. They are usually the only ones talking about it.
• It makes some sense to say that you have nothing to be concerned about if you haven't done anything wrong, but as a legal strategy, it doesn't work very well. Ill-advised comments can complicate matters and cause proceedings to drag out and legal fees to go up.
• Chances are nobody will be talking about an incident like this later. If there is litigation, it will most likely end in a settlement before trial. The vast majority of all cased are settled. I don't have statistics readily available, but it's probably over 90%, particularly when you consider claims that get settled before a complaint is even filed. Virtually all settlements make the settlement and any facts regarding the claim confidential.
• There are a lot of reasons for confidentiality that don't involve vast industry-wide conspiracies, which is why confidentiality is a near-universal feature of settlements. I have no basis for commenting one way or the other on any comments anyone has made about the dive industry trying to keep these incidents quiet. I just know that there are lots of reasons for things to be quiet in any industry, so I would expect any settlement to require confidentiality.

Bottom line: I would be very, very surprised if we ever learned much about this incident, now or later. Unless there is some reason for the Coast Guard to make any information public (and I don't know how the Coast Guard treats this stuff), the facts are unlikely to become public unless there is a trial and a trial is probably the least likely outcome.

 

[St John the Diver]

Is that a reasonable rate of progression or advanced but feasible? Or dangerously quick?

It's a progression that should take at least three full seasons of diving to go thru. One per year. And that's diving regularly. An accomplished open circuit diver will take a year to get to where he was previously on open circuit. Experience can only be gained just so fast.

 

[Hoag]

Sounds like they have as good a reason as anyone involved for keeping quiet. Which is, of course, why the rest of us are always left to speculation.

Speculation is the last thing that is needed. Let the investigation continue, and let the facts come out.

 

[St John the Diver]

Speculation is the last thing that is needed. Let the investigation continue, and let the facts come out.

^^^ See above.

It's almost certain that unless there's a trial as in the case of Wes Skyles, that nothing will ever be released to the public.

So, what we can do is to accept the lessons that we can take from what we know.

 

[doctormike]

Bottom line: I would be very, very surprised if we ever learned much about this incident, now or later. Unless there is some reason for the Coast Guard to make any information public (and I don't know how the Coast Guard treats this stuff), the facts are unlikely to become public unless there is a trial and a trial is probably the least likely outcome.

You know, it's really a shame that there isn't more of an organized and professional approach to accident analysis in this country. I know that everyone is worried about the government coming in and ruining things, but if you want to see how this is done right, look at how the Australians and the Canadians do it.

This accident report from the New South Wales (Australia) coroner's court is a work of art. Seriously, read it to see how an incredibly exhaustive analysis is done, written to be understandable even by a non-diving reader: https://cognitasresearch.files.word...the-inquest-into-the-death-of-philip-gray.pdf

And the Ontario Underwater Council (not a government agency) does similar things. Their reports are always very helpful.

I guess it is the litigation environment and our individualistic frontier culture that makes us resistant to these things. The OUC was set up in the 1950s by local scuba clubs and businesses.

But conjecture here in this forum on scubaboard is also helpful, even if we don't know exactly what happened in this particular case. That's why the forum exists, and I have learned a lot reading some of these posts...

 

[kelemvor]

You know, it's really a shame that there isn't more of an organized and professional approach to accident analysis in this country. I know that everyone is worried about the government coming in and ruining things, but if you want to see how this is done right, look at how the Australians and the Canadians do it.

This accident report from the New South Wales (Australia) coroner's court is a work of art. Seriously, read it to see how an incredibly exhaustive analysis is done, written to be understandable even by a non-diving reader: https://cognitasresearch.files.word...the-inquest-into-the-death-of-philip-gray.pdf

Wow, you weren't kidding. It could seriously improve dive safety if accidents in the US got this treatment every time. Presumably, that would require a federal law. Unfortunately, almost everyone involved in diving from OW diver to boss of the cert agency doesn't want more regulation. Not that I'm pro regulation, but this type of accident analysis seems like it could only be a good thing. Well for everyone except web forums because we wouldn't need to speculate on a forum if we knew we would get an actual analysis of accidents.

It would be a nice addition to the legacy of the deceased divers that their deaths helped prevent future deaths.

I can think of at least one private "group" that took a stab at creating a database. However, that effort seems to have petered out some time ago. Such a private working group, if organized like an open source software project, might have some serious longevity.

 

[Steve_C]

I do get tired of posts that refer to brad or bob or betty and all I see is avatar name slike mebigdiver, IloveNY, etc. Makes it hard to understand what is being said and by whom.

 

[Cowfish Aesthetic]

Such a private working group, if organized like an open source software project, might have some serious longevity.

The certifying agencies could, if they were so inclined, create such a project and make continual reporting a requirement of divemaster/instructor certification. There would always be the potential for noncompliance or dishonesty, but something would be better than nothing.