Fear of Narcosis!

[Saudi-Diver]

Hi I would say to get comfortable diving, stay above 60ft and get some valuable experience before doing your AOW.

I have been deep and know I have been impaired by Narcosis to some degree, but the only time I have had a slightly anxious Narcosis experience was in cold water with very low visibility ( less than 2 feet). I ascended about 10 ft and the feeling of impending doom disappeared.

There is loads of really good stuff to see in shallow water, plus your air lasts longer.

 

[BDSC]

I know narcosis HAS to be respected

BINGO!

There you have it and you are right, it needs to be respected but it certainly isn't something to be afraid of. More likely than not, you'll never "freak out" or "not remember your dive". I have no doubt that some of the stories you have heard have a bit of drama added to them to make them a good story.

If I were you, I'd wait on taking the AOW class and get some diving in. I waited about a year between my classes and by the time I took the AOW class, I already had a number of dives below 60 ft and a several below 100 ft. You may even find that you don't even need to take an AOW class down the road. Beyond the basic OW class, I think you can learn from just diving, especially if you have a friend to dive with who has a lot of experience.

 

[Sat Diver]

What's the hurry to do the certification? If you are worried about narcosis, it means you have not got enough experience to know that there is really nothing to worry about.
To me it is like walking into a bar and worrying about whether I may or may not get drunk.

As long as you are in open water you will be fine.
Dive a little longer, and then try deep dives as you feel more comfortable.
Forget about the certification.

 

[boulderjohn]

HMM now heres a question folks. Is it a good plan to DELIBERATELY go out of your way to get your student narked in a controlled enviroment?

That was, and to a slightly lesser extent, still is, a key part of the theory of the deep dive portion of AOW and the Deep Dive specialty. The PADI AOW deep dive used to include a problem that the student had to solve on the surface followed by a similar problem to be solved at depth, thus demonstrating the diver's level of impairment.

Controlled exposure to narcosis has argueable benefits. The AOW deep dive may allow some experience with narcosis (it doesn't for most divers), but at least you are supervised and safe during that time.

And that's the problem. In most cases, students had no more problem solving their problems at depth than on the surface. In fact, given the practice they had on the surface, many did better at depth. That is why that part of the dive was removed a couple of years ago.

Acclimating students to the effects of narcosis in a controlled environment is not very valuable when they don't notice any effects.

 

[jaycanwk]

Like others have said, the effects can be subtle. I recall one time I was looking at my gauges but couldn't for the life of me understand what they were telling me. I had no idea what the numbers on my computer meant. Luckily I was on a wreck and had ascended a bit to see the wheel house and everything finally clicked. So ya it can be subtle.

Jason

 

[cocoajoe]

A good instructor will give a mental test(s). How many fingers do you see? Work out some math problems before dive and note time to answer. Do similar test at depth and compare time.

 

[fnfalman]

The last two times I went past 100-ft, I got the dark narc (feeling panic, fear, paranoia). I was not "freaking out", but I felt it. Don't care to have that feeling again. My last fifty dives had been 80-ft or less.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I once dated a flight attendant who had a very low tolerance to alcohol. One evening, while we were watching DVD's and eating Chinese food at her sister's house, she vanished. I couldn't find her anywhere. Eventually, I heard splashing from the bathtub in a dark bathroom. I entered and switched on the light.

"Oh, no! You have to turn out the sun," she slurred.

I flicked off the light and asked what she was doing?

She ignored the question.

"Trace. I'm glad you're a lifeguard."

"Why?" I asked.

"Because you won't let me drown. You won't let me drown, will you, Trace?"

That was after she drank half a glass of wine with dinner! I drank half the bottle and could still safely use a knife, operate the DVD player, and take care of her.

Now, hearing about that experience, someone might believe that wine is truly dangerous and should never be consumed. However, because we grow up surrounded by alcohol we know that most people can enjoy wine, beer, and other alcoholic beverages responsibly. Impairment begins with the first drink and in diving impairment begins as we descend.

The attitude a diver has toward narcosis will definitely affect how frightened or not the diver is of any intoxicated feeling. The tech diving community has pretty much decided that the "safe" range for open water narcotic impairment is between 130 feet and 180 feet on air from the Advanced Nitrox to the Extended Range certification levels. In cave diving 130 feet is considered the maximum acceptable narcotic depth due to the risks and complexities of the activity. There are also many factors that effect narcosis. I was diving without a hood in November in the St. Lawrence and got whacked by narcosis while on Nitrox 32 because of the cold on my unprotected noggin at 112 feet. A couple months ago, I dove air at 130 - 140 and could maintain vigilance for student safety in an advanced nitrox class in FL. Organizations like GUE and UTD manage narcosis by teaching their divers to use helium even inside "recreational" depths. I've had that training, but I've also had training in deep air diving from other agencies such as NACD, TDI, PDIC and PSAI.

The best way to "manage narcosis" is through knowledge, education and experience.

Here are four links to check out.

The first is a post I made regarding some perspective on attitude as it pertains to deep diving and narcosis and the Mount-Milner survey conducted by Tom Mount of IANTD and a psychologist, Dr. Milner in 1965:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5198399-post196.html

The second is a 2003 post discussing the same thing by DA Aquamaster:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/355882-post10.html

Next, my friend Andy provides a link to a Brett Gilliam (founder of TDI) article about deep diving and narcosis:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5774058-post38.html

Finally, this DAN article about anxiety while diving is really worth the read and again discusses attitude as it pertains to deep diving and narcosis:

DAN Divers Alert Network : Anxiety: Is It A Contraindication to Diving?

 

[boulderjohn]

The attitude a diver has toward narcosis will definitely affect how frightened or not the diver is of any intoxicated feeling. ...

Finally, this DAN article about anxiety while diving is really worth the read and again discusses attitude as it pertains to deep diving and narcosis:

DAN Divers Alert Network : Anxiety: Is It A Contraindication to Diving?

I was about to cite a study that indicated that the degree to which you are impaired by narcosis can to some degree be determined by the degree to which you expect to become impaired. Trace's list of sources contains a mention of that study. In case it is missed, I will quote the relevant section of the DAN article Trace cited.

Author Bret Gilliam7 described a 1965 study conducted by Tom Mount, a pioneer in U.S. cave diving, and Dr. Gilbert Milner. They studied the effects of “anticipated behavior modeling” with respect to perceived and observed (subjective vs. objective) effects and the probability of experiencing nitrogen narcosis.

In this experiment, three groups of divers received information regarding the topic of nitrogen narcosis:

* Group 1 was told that there was a high probability of experiencing the effects of nitrogen narcosis — in fact, they were told that everyone experienced severe symptoms at 130 feet / 40 meters.
* Individuals in Group 2 were informed that there was such a state as nitrogen narcosis, but that this was relatively rare and only a few people experienced symptoms at depth.
* The final group received a lecture regarding the recognition of symptoms, risks and dangers, but were told that persons with a strong will were able to resist and / or overcome symptoms of narcosis.​

In test dives between 130 and 240 feet (40 and 73 meters), the group who expected to experience symptoms of narcosis actually experienced these symptoms with greater frequency and severity than did persons in the other groups.

Dr. Maxie Maultsby, a proponent of rational behavioral therapy, discussed what he termed “negative self-talk,” our habit of continuing in a pattern of maladaptive responses — in this case, our continuing to tell ourselves that we can’t handle a situation. However, Maultsby maintains that, if we can talk ourselves into a pattern, we can also talk ourselves back out.8

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Everyone gets narced to some degree at depth ... how you feel it and how you respond not only varies from diver to diver, but often from dive to dive.

I don't think narcosis is something to fear ... I do think it's something to recognize, respect, and manage. Your instructor is establishing a "baseline" to help you down that path by providing you with a test at depth to demonstrate your ability to recognize, process, and respond to a problem.

Narcosis affects your ability to comprehend that a problem exists ... it reduces your ability to process how to deal with the problem ... and it slows your responses to solving the problem. How much of each of those it does depends on the person ... and to a degree your mental attitude.

Narcosis affects people in different ways. I've heard about the "happy" narc, but never really experienced it ... I tend to get anxious and "mother hennish" when I'm narced. I also get even more than usually forgetful ... I know I'm narced when I realize that I'm checking my pressure gauge for the third time this minute.

Which brings up another point ... often your buddy will know you're narced before you do. You may not feel it ... but your buddy may notice that you're fumbling with your gear a bit more than normal, or having difficulty maintaining your buoyancy. These are signs of narcosis.

When I take my students on their AOW deep dive, my test is to spit my regulator out and slash my hand across my throat ... I want to see how long it takes them to recognize the problem and do something about it. Most times my students are pretty good about it, although occasionally slower than I'd like. One student stared at me for a few seconds, then checked her dive computer to see if it could tell her what I was getting at ... then suddenly realized what was going on and rather quickly donated her octopus. She later told me she felt no different at that time than she usually did ... but her ability to process the problem was clearly evident.

I've yet to see a student do anything that I would consider dangerous ... I think the key is to remain calm and do what you need to do methodically.

But as a lot of folks have indicated, fear of narcosis is a great reason to avoid it ... narcosis tends to magnify your emotions, and if you're afraid of it the risk of putting yourself into a panic state increases quite a bit. So I would agree with those who advise caution going deep until you have those feelings under control. That will come with more dives, and an improving confidence in your abilities.

As to your experienced buddies, I believe that's smoke coming out the backside of your wetsuit ... take their stories with somewhat less than a grain of salt ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)