Fatality off of Point Lobos, California

[MXGratefulDiver]

I wish I could say I'm surprised by the description of the accident, or by the responses in this thread. Sadly, I'm not.

While it's often true that these accidents occur because people were inadequately trained, that is not always the case. Over the past eight years I've made something of a crusade out of promoting gas management in my area ... providing free seminars on the topic to pretty much any dive shop or dive club that will let me speak. One thing I like to point out is that if you're diving with someone who's using a similarly-sized cylinder and uses their air at roughly the same rate you do, if you should run out of air it's unlikely they're going to have enough to help you very much. This seems to come as a surprise to some folks ... because they've been so ingrained with the notion that if you get in trouble, your buddy's there to help you.

But I always ask my audience ... "How many of you have practiced the out-of-air skills you learned in OW class since you got certified?" Almost always, a tiny percentage of those attending will raise their hand. My follow-on question is "How well do you think you'd do if someone swam up to you on your next dive and slashed their hand across their throat?" I get some head-shaking and murmuring ... and follow it up with my third question ... "Don't you think it would be a good idea to get comfortable with those skills before you actually need to use them?"

The reality is that even if you train someone to be completely comfortable with basic rescue skills during their initial training, unless they periodically practice those skills, they're unlikely to remember what to do when a real emergency happens ... because it's nothing like the controlled conditions of the class, and because they're giong to be stressed, and task-loaded and possibly too frightened to remember what to do. That appears to be the case in this accident, as it has been in others I'm familiar with.

If there's anything I can suggest to those looking for a take-away from this sort of tragedy it would be this ... don't assume you'll remember what to do. Even if you've been trained ... even if you received what you consider excellent training ... you need to practice your emergency skills from time to time, because the time you'll need to use them won't be a good time to have to put any effort at all into remembering what to do. And if you haven't practiced those skills since your OW training, it's very unlikely that you will remember ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Ken Kurtis]

We can control how much practice we give people with skills during their classes, but without recent practice, everything they learn will get rusty, and the things they did least or talked about least will be the first to go.

There may be something else that factors in here as well.

Students tend to dive better when they're with their instructor than when they're not. Part of that is because they just may be more comfortable with us around and that alone makes them a better diver. But part of it also may be that we (instructors) are still doing too much of the diving and dive planning for them and they come to rely on that. If during their cert class they are always told to come up a little shallower, tell me what your air is, let me put a little air in your BC (or indicate you do it yourself), etc., etc., they may not be "learning" as much as we think they are. And then when they got out on their own, this whole support system they've come to rely on suddenly isn't there and they're on their own. And they don't perform as well or don't make good decisions. Their buoyancy is off. They run low on air or don't check frequently enough. They get seperated.

We used to have this guy who dove with us who was fine when he was escorted by one of our staff. But when we put him with another buddy and it was just two of them, they'd come up way far away from the boat, run low on air, bang into the bottom, etc. And what we finally discerned was that when we were with him on the dive, we were sort of monitoring all of those things for him and that's what he was relying on. If he started to turn left when we turned right, we'd get him back with the group. We'd ask him to check his air. We'd bring him back to the boat.

Especially with today's quickie class (and this is not a shot at you guys, Lynne) this is probably more prevalent. You're under time pressure to get things done and it's just easier and quicker for us to do things FOR you so we can get you through the course. Sort of the teaching equivalent of a follow-me dive.

I firmly believe students learn when they make mistakes and the trick in teaching is to allow them to make mistakes they learn from in an observed/controlled environment without putting them in jeopardy. I also tell people I don't worry about the students who have problems in class because they're learning their limitations. I worry about the ones who never have problems because they'll develop a false sense of confidence. And if my premise is correct and "we" are doing too many things for them and mitigating their problems in class, it's sort of the same thing as never experiencing the problems in the first place to give you perspective on your abilities and skill level.

- Ken

 

[tye1138]

Truth of the matter is, very few people slashes their hand across their throat when they're out of air. Yes, if you look down at your gauge and notice you have almost nothing left, you're a bit calmer then taking a breath and getting nothing. Most people either freak out and swim towards the closest person and pop the reg right out of their mouth, OR they panic and surface.

Being an instructor, you do so many out of air drills, you understand your physical limit. As Ken said, you can teach students everything, but unless they encounter those situations on a regular basis, its hard to remember the entire routine. They get lured into a false sense of security and when the "emergency" finally comes around, they've either forgotten how to deal with it, or they freak out themselves and make the issue greater.

I always did a lot of OOA, emergency accents and rescue drills in my classes. My goal was to make my students comfortable underwater, if they weren't comfortable, they didn't pass the course. I had only one student out of all the students we had who just couldn't deal with the OW and I refunded most of their money. I also had some students who had issues and needed more time in the water. So I'd pair them up with other students and send them on their way, just to get more experience in the OW. Then I'd watch from a distance and see how they interacted. I'd also have them do some drills with other people to confirm their comfortability underwater, without an "instructor" visibly present.

You can blame training, you can blame the buddy system, but in reality, it all comes down to the individual diver and their experiences. We can all sit here and say, I'd do this, I'd do that, but what would you do if you didn't know WHAT to do?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Over the time I've been diving I've been a donor to OOA divers four times ... two of those were my dive buddy back when we were both very new divers, and two were strangers who weren't my buddy ... I just happened to be closer to them than their dive buddy was. In every case, the OOA person followed the hand-across-throat procedure for letting me know their predicament.

I think the image of someone mugging you for your regulator is more the exception than the rule ... if not a myth conjured up as a way to make a point.

That said, it will be far more common ... or it has been in my experience ... to have to donate air to someone who is at depth and suddenly realizes they don't have adequate air to make it to the surface safely. If you have the choice, get them on your air and begin an ascent while they still have some air in their tank. This gives you both options during the ascent if, for any reason, you have to disengage.

In my experience, the most common response from a LOA diver is that you'll see someone swimming toward you with their gauge in their hand, and a look of disbelief on their face. If you should see this, it's best to get ready to donate as they're swimming toward you ... it takes a lot of stress off the situation, and increases the potential for a positive outcome ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[billt4sf]

I would like to share a few thoughts on this from my perspective as a novice diver -- one that thinks he is learning alot from ScubaBoard that I never learned in class.

Before I started reading SB, I:

1) Never did buddy checks. (Except when the instructor told us to "do it now".)
2) Did not stay with my buddy except when convenient (Just followed the group.)
3) Did not know where my buddy's weights were or how to get rid of mine.
4) Did not remember that one can breathe out of a free-flowing reg.
5) Quite often, "forgot" to inflate my BC on the surface.
6) Could not navigate underwater at all.

Basically, I just did what the instructors told me. I had enough trouble getting down without hurting my ears and without touching the coral. We are now beginning to be better divers (especially to the extent we dive without instructors).

As you know, this is not a slap at instructors but it is meant to illustrate that divers need to make a transition from instructor-led groups to buddy divers. This transition does not happen automatically -- far from it. I'm sure we could have happily gone on many, many instructor-led dives and followed most of the 6 poor practices I listed above for quite some time.

I posted a few incidents on this forum and I learned ALOT from surviving them and posting them. I still meet divers / friends that express how easy it is to scuba dive, a fair number claim that you don't need training, and a large percentage are in follow-the-instructor mode even after having a number of dives. Just think of the average dive boat in a tropical location.

I think that the transition from instructor-led group dives to diving as buddies is when you REALLY learn to dive -- by forcing oneself to think through the dive planning, to recognize and avoid situations above our skill level, to advance our skills, to actually practice those we already know, to make our own judgments about what to do or not do.

Or maybe I just feel that way because it's happening to us right now.

Thanks,

Bill

 

[Ayisha]

I also tell people I don't worry about the students who have problems in class because they're learning their limitations. I worry about the ones who never have problems because they'll develop a false sense of confidence. And if my premise is correct and "we" are doing too many things for them and mitigating their problems in class, it's sort of the same thing as never experiencing the problems in the first place to give you perspective on your abilities and skill level.

I believe you're right. That's a very insightful statement and quite the opposite of what many instructors seem to think.

 

[tye1138]

Before I started reading SB, I:

1) Never did buddy checks. (Except when the instructor told us to "do it now".)
2) Did not stay with my buddy except when convenient (Just followed the group.)
3) Did not know where my buddy's weights were or how to get rid of mine.
4) Did not remember that one can breathe out of a free-flowing reg.
5) Quite often, "forgot" to inflate my BC on the surface.
6) Could not navigate underwater at all.

(In Bold) Scary, down-rite scary. I don't know what someone could teach diving and not mention those things to the point where you would remember them for life. We drilled in those things so much in class, it was second nature to everyone by the end.

As you know, this is not a slap at instructors but it is meant to illustrate that divers need to make a transition from instructor-led groups to buddy divers. This transition does not happen automatically -- far from it. I'm sure we could have happily gone on many, many instructor-led dives and followed most of the 6 poor practices I listed above for quite some time.

The industry sets standards and obviously a lot of instructors don't follow them perfectly. Some guys like myself exceed the standards, combining more rescue/emergency skills within the standard OW course and a stringent pass/fail review. Other instructors push students through like a cattle farm, I've seen 2 day OW classes before down in Florida, thats disgusting in my book when we spend a minimal of 6 days learning the same stuff.

The problem is, most people don't have a good education. The problem is, even those who DO have good education, aren't practiced. The problem is, in most buddy diving situations, the buddy is too far away to be of any aid or not educated enough to aid. The problem is, our training system is built on buddy reliance, not self reliance. We need to take our own lives into our own hands. We expect someone will come and save us and we don't have contingency of any kind. We're churning out hundreds of new divers a month with the understanding their "buddy" will somehow magically save them and we're letting those people loose into the open waters.

What is the solution?

In my opinion the solution is to add serious rescue skills and complete self reliance teaching to the standard OW course. Teaching people from day one how to do everything themselves. How to rescue themselves in an emergency, how to switch air sources, how to bail out of gear if trapped and surface with a backup air source. We're talking really easy stuff that most OW students should be able to perform no problem if they were just taught. We're talking about waterproof check lists you keep with your gear, a pony bottle with a backup reg setup in a DIR config, a decent knife and scissors, emergency beacon, easy access weight removal, etc. Then, when you dive with a buddy and/or friend, they too will be self reliant and sure, its awesome to dive with each other, but you aren't having to rely on each other. Make a game plan on the surface go do your dive and re-group on the surface after an hour for the swim back.

Yea, my utopia world will never happen, buddy diving is way too convenient and thats exactly what the industry wants. They want people in the water, they want people buying gear, they want the whole thing to be easy pleasy.

Sorry for the rant... I'm cryin' over some of the stuff I read on here.

 

[1.3]

I agree with the focus on additional training but what is missing is a core skill - Situational Awareness. Forget about your buddy - How would you save yourself?

 

[tye1138]

I agree with the focus on additional training but what is missing is a core skill - Situational Awareness. Forget about your buddy - How would you save yourself?

Exactly.

The problem is, thats a whole different training strategy.

 

[Bob DBF]

There may be something else that factors in here as well.

Students tend to dive better when they're with their instructor than when they're not. Part of that is because they just may be more comfortable with us around and that alone makes them a better diver. But part of it also may be that we (instructors) are still doing too much of the diving and dive planning for them and they come to rely on that. If during their cert class they are always told to come up a little shallower, tell me what your air is, let me put a little air in your BC (or indicate you do it yourself), etc., etc., they may not be "learning" as much as we think they are. And then when they got out on their own, this whole support system they've come to rely on suddenly isn't there and they're on their own. And they don't perform as well or don't make good decisions. Their buoyancy is off. They run low on air or don't check frequently enough. They get seperated.

- Ken

I bolded the operative phrase and it should be changed slightly they may not be "learning" [-]as much as[/-] what we think they are

What they are learning is that the Instructor and DM will run the dive and keep them safe so that diving with an authority figure is as important as learning the material and having command of the skills being demonstrated. Swimming in file focusing on the I/DM is more important than your buddy, do that with a buddy pair in fair viz water and you will have a seperation and it may take some time before the leader finds out. The I/DM insures a route so that the student dosen't get lost and the dive is over before anyone runs out of air. And my personal favorite, train predominatly in 20' of water, or less, and certify to 60', which changes air usage dramaticly, and the student has no "feel" for how fast the air disapears, just checking at the normal interval during training can put you in a jackpot at 60.

OW dive buddy pairs should be trained to dive independantly as the certification describes.



Bob
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I may be old, but I'm not dead yet