Fatality off of Point Lobos, California

[Adobo]

I dunno. There is very limited information here on what actually happened. The only details we are getting about the incident are ones from a very emotional (and rightfully so) friend of the victim. Aside that, the friend seems to have limited diving experience also so he might not have enough knowledge to ask the right questions to get all the relevant details from the victim's buddy.

If there is anything I would take away from this incident, its this...
1) Proper weighting - the only reason I can think of why the victim could not be kept at the surface at the end of the dive despite a ton of effort is that the victim was likely significantly over weighted.
2) Safety stops are optional - if the dive is starting to go south, call the dive and go to the surface on a properly paced ascent. Doing a safety stop when you are low on gas (especially on dives with such minimal exposures) seems very foolish to me.
3) Gas planning, gas planning and gas planning.

There were a couple of comments in this thread that caught my eye in particular. One being that the buddy's panic caused the demise of the victim. That comment really just puzzles me.

The other comment being that the removal of rescue skills from open water class is almost criminal. That might be true but for me, I think it is better to get ahead of these situations such that heroic rescue efforts are not required. I mean, I am at least as good a diver as the average here in scubaboard (I imagine) but I doubt I could save a substantially over-weigthed, unconscious diver that far from shore. For me, the best strategy is to identify the things that can cause problems before the situation gets critical.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I am at least as good a diver as the average here in scubaboard (I imagine) but I doubt I could save a substantially over-weigthed, unconscious diver that far from shore.

Sure you could ... drop their weights, then it won't matter how much they were wearing.

For me, the best strategy is to identify the things that can cause problems before the situation gets critical.

That's the best strategy for everyone ... it's what we emphasize in Rescue training, that the best way to handle a rescue is to not put yourself into the situation where you need one.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Gombessa]

I think it is better to get ahead of these situations such that heroic rescue efforts are not required.

I have to agree here. While we can certainly talk about the benefits of incorporating rescue practices into OW, what strikes me as particularly tragic is that, at least from the account provided, this incident was entirely preventable solely with OW training concepts, without having to reach for specialized "rescue" skills. Gas planning, turning the dive on gas, ascending on low gas, signaling low gas/out-of-gas to buddy, proper weighting such that you are at most neutral at safety stop depth with a near-empty tank...


While there's definitely more and more that the buddy *could* have done, especially as the situation spiraled further and further out of control, I concur the best way to head the problem off at the pass is to focus more on the importance of mastering basic OW rather than buddy/third-party rescue. Given what little I know happened here, I still come away thinking that this sad event could have been a complete non-issue if any of the above were heeded (say, weighting properly,turning the dive or ascending earlier, signaling low-on-gas, or skipping the safety stop), and that would be many times safer than if the emergency happened and the buddy was a fully trained and prepared expert rescue diver who immediately jumped in and saved the day.

 

[Adobo]

Sure you could ... drop their weights, then it won't matter how much they were wearing.

We don't know what kind of BC the person was using. We don't know how much weights were stuffed in the weight pockets. We don't know how much ditchable and how much non ditchable weight was used. All we know (I think) is that when the buddy let the victim go, the victim sank like a rock. That's with an empty tank and a bc and exposure suit that had expanded on the way to the surface.

But, let's assume that I was able to keep the diver on the surface. He was still already unconscious. Perhaps from an embolism. They were where, somewhere around middle reef? It would have taken me 15-20minutes to swim him somewhere I could get him some real help.

That's the best strategy for everyone ... it's what we emphasize in Rescue training, that the best way to handle a rescue is to not put yourself into the situation where you need one.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

That's not what Jim Lapenta was talking about. He was talking about:

How it can happen is that many open.water divers are not taught how to.assist a buddy in trouble. What you had here was an incident where two very simple and BASIC rescue skills - unconscious diver from depth and supporting a diver at the surface and helping them get positive may have resulted in a completely different and positive outcome.

Personally, I am of the opinion that this situation needed to be headed off way way earlier in the dive. I believe that these guys fell into the incident pit when the dive planning began, further fell into it when they presumably ran low on gas and yet decided to do a safety stop and then were pretty much unable to extricate themselves leading to one diver going unconscious. Spending a lot of time focusing on a relatively inexperienced diver's inability to effect a rescue after an incident (not a proactive rescue), it seems like we are missing the best and most educational points.

 

[Crush]

At dive 60 I was a much better diver than at dive 5. However, at dive 5 I was a far better buddy. Many of the dives after OW taught me that: (1) my insta-buddy was more experienced than me; (2) my insta-buddy didn't want to be with me because I was a hoover (but the DM made him); and (3) my insta-buddy thought that my desire to do pre-dive checks and plan the dive was annoying. I adopted many of the attitude of these more experienced divers. The only thing that led me to see the error in my ways was getting "corrected" by a bunch of senior divers on SB when I posted about my new level of laxness.

 

[Gombessa]

Just to anchor the conversation relevantly to the incident in question, Point Lobos is a bit different than many other ocean shore dives I've seen.

• The park only allows 15 dive pairs in per day.
• You need to make a reservation to dive (typically months in advance for weekends).
• You need to list your dive buddy on the reservation.
• You must dive with a buddy, solo is not allowed.
• You can't get into the park without your listed buddy present (and you both need to present c-cards).

While none of this eliminates the possibility of diving at Lobos with someone you've never met before, it's not a typical "instabuddy" situation, and the burdensome mechanics of getting a dive set up favors the dive team being "known variables" to each other.

I also noticed between dives 5-10 how lax many experienced divers (even instructors and DMs) were compared to the clear rules laid out to me in basic OW class (always do a buddy and gear check, always plan your dive carefully, etc.), and I also deferred to "greater experience" until better buddies set me straight. But a diver is less likely to be cowed by strangers at Lobos than at many other places.

 

[tye1138]

• The park only allows 15 dive pairs in per day.
• You need to make a reservation to dive (typically months in advance for weekends).
• You need to list your dive buddy on the reservation.
• You must dive with a buddy, solo is not allowed.
• You can't get into the park without your listed buddy present (and you both need to present c-cards).

Why is this done?

I also noticed between dives 5-10 how lax many experienced divers (even instructors and DMs) were compared to the clear rules laid out to me in basic OW class (always do a buddy and gear check, always plan your dive carefully, etc.), and I also deferred to "greater experience" until better buddies set me straight.

Yep and its scary to see people who are ultra lax, tanks slipping out from the straps, hoses tangled everywhere, forgetting basic gear and having to walk back to the truck. It was hard being an instructor and having to kinda ignore bad divers, because they were everywhere. Obviously when teaching, your mentality is always one of being in control of your students. But nobody was there to help YOU setup your gear. As the instructor it's your responsibility to manage your own gear and plan out the dives accordingly. Once you have that process down pat, you're doing everything automatically because your diving so much, it's all routine. The problem is, for most people, diving isn't a career, its a hobby. I too have been diving with some bad Instructors and LOTS of bad DM's. People who just don't belong in the water.

:sigh:

 

[Gombessa]

Why is this done?

Dive Regulations | Point Lobos Foundation

You'd have to ask the park for specific rationales, but their concerns are safety and conservation of the state reserve. Whether or not the individual policies achieve these goals is broader than this thread, the point I was trying to make is that these rules exist and are enforced.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

We don't know what kind of BC the person was using. We don't know how much weights were stuffed in the weight pockets. We don't know how much ditchable and how much non ditchable weight was used. All we know (I think) is that when the buddy let the victim go, the victim sank like a rock. That's with an empty tank and a bc and exposure suit that had expanded on the way to the surface.

You should still be able to find and release at least some weights ... if you followed standard training you should know where and how before you enter the water together.

But, let's assume that I was able to keep the diver on the surface. He was still already unconscious. Perhaps from an embolism. They were where, somewhere around middle reef? It would have taken me 15-20minutes to swim him somewhere I could get him some real help.

A tank tow would get you there ... which is something that's taught at the OW level, at least by the agency I took OW from (YMCA) as well as the agency I currently teach for (NAUI). Yes, it's possible he'd be dead before you could get him to help ... it's possible he was dead before he even hit the surface ... but all you can do is try.

Personally, I am of the opinion that this situation needed to be headed off way way earlier in the dive. I believe that these guys fell into the incident pit when the dive planning began, further fell into it when they presumably ran low on gas and yet decided to do a safety stop and then were pretty much unable to extricate themselves leading to one diver going unconscious. Spending a lot of time focusing on a relatively inexperienced diver's inability to effect a rescue after an incident (not a proactive rescue), it seems like we are missing the best and most educational points.

I agree with all of that ... and in particular the point about the safety stop. New divers are so conditioned to do safety stops that they often don't remember the bit about how they're optional ... or how "bent is fixable, death is not". Perhaps this is an area where OW training could be improved ... but often the many rules of thumb we give divers do not go into enough detail to put some context around why they exist. And diving is so situational that it sometimes proves to be the case that observing these rules of thumb only exacerbate the situation.

That said, the current format of most OW training isn't intended to teach people rescue skills ... that's offered as a separate class. But that doesn't apply uniformly to all agencies. One of the things I like about NAUI is they mandate that some rescue skills must be taught at every level. At the OW (Scuba Diver) level, we train people how to bring an unconscious diver to the surface, and how to use the three basic rescue towing techniques. Both of those skills could have been applied in this case ... perhaps to a happier outcome. What we don't know is whether the diver wasn't taught those skills, or had been taught them and just didn't think to apply them in a moment of crisis.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[andrewy]

We were there and i had a chance to talk to this pair before their last dive and after...
The fellow who died was a younger guy, very quite per my account and did not talk much, and in wet suit.
His surviving buddy was in dry suit. remember that point.
Per my account we started gearing up after they came out of a first dive and it probably took us 30 min to get in the water.
There after we had 110min dive and when we surfaced on SMB rescue jet ski was waiting for us saying diver was missing for 30 minutes or so.
So it looks like they had about an hour surface time, hardly enough to get warm in wet suit.
That day vis was very nice 40ft or so in 60ft of water., so easy to get carried away with scenery.
I've shortly talked to surviving buddy his word were "we were in 50ft of water, he (deceased) started going down out of air on a stop, i donated , we surfaced, i could not hold him up, it all went so fast" also he mentioned it was their 3rd or so dive together and that he (deceased) had about 15 dives.

So here is my take.

Set up:
1. Remember myself first few dives im scared and checking everything every minute, after about 10 or so , till first problem i was invincible having
145 ft dive #11 in my book, came up with 200psi that day.
2. Wet suit on second dive in 50 degree water will make you use more gas, so hard for guy in dry suit to judge your consumption.
3. No long hose makes it hard to donate and requires awkward position, try for once donate AIR2 or similar
4. dissimilar gear requires clear brains to think , which may not be possible under panic, set in #3, when you being pulled down.

Outcomes.
1. Very sad and preventable accident
2. Deceased was responsible for his own gas no question there. As a team they should plan that requirement. But ultimately it is my buddy' responsibility for him and for me to check his own SPG and make me aware of problems.
3. Surviving buddy did what he could in this situation, sure we could argue what he could of done, but he did not and this is the end of it., he will live with this memory for all his life, i would not want this.
4. As an alternative, rescue attempt of OOA diver by unprepared but willing buddy more likely result in 2 victims. i recall we had it few years back.