Failed PADI Rescue....now what?

[Slamfire]

First, sorry for coming onto the thread so late, and I apologize in advance if I re-cover any points already made (I haven't read every page).

Andy, if you don't want to read every page, just go back and read all the posts that the OP made in this thread. It'll give you more clear picture that may influence the way you see this case.

 

[DevonDiver]

Andy, if you don't want to read every page, just go back and read all the posts that the OP made in this thread. It'll give you more clear picture that may influence the way you see this case.

Actually, I'm glad I didn't read the OP's posts (until now), because it probably gave me a more rational opportunity to raise some issues. Yes... I can see how the OP's attitude influenced many who contributed to the thread.

What cannot be assumed is that the OP attended their rescue course with the same attitude. I'd be pissed at losing that amount of money on a course... and if the instructor/center concerned didn't handle it diplomatically then it'd certainly cause some angst. People vent angst... and that's what happened on this thread.

However, even assuming the OP's attitude sucked when she attended the training, there are still standards that have to be adhered to by the instructor. It's not clear whether they were or weren't; but the OP doesn't seem to have been offered any referral or opportunity to 'make up' for not mastering skills at the initial attempt. Also, practice sessions (as the OP describes them) do not seem conducive to skill practice and mastery. The Rescue Exercises are for learning skills, the scenarios are for applying them. Learning should be done under optimal, conducive conditions.

If the OP did display that attitude in class, then the instructor/center may have wished to remove them from training for personal reasons; or to maintain a better learning environment for the rest of the class. If that were true, then the OP didn't "fail" anything... so should have been offered a refund.

There is no performance standard for attitude or confidence on the rescue diver course. Performance standards are the only means by which the instructor can refuse to certify the student.

There are few performance standards actually listed in relation to specific rescue exercises. The instructor has to demonstrate an appropriate (to the rescuer/victim) technique, the student copies it... performs it. IMHO, it's more about if the student achieves the goal... or not. That depends entirely on whether the instructor has properly trained the student or not.

One important factor in teaching rescue diver courses is that the instructor identifies a workable approach relative to the strengths and weaknesses of the student. An inexperienced instructor might not achieve that... and could blame the student.

The OP states they were not allowed to progress onto the rescue scenarios. They didn't state they were failed specifically on any given rescue exercise. They did, indeed, complete all the rescue exercises (it looks like?). They shouldn't have progressed through the exercises (it's in standards) unless each subsequent exercise was mastered. So they mastered them?

Advancing onto the rescue scenarios.... well... all they have to do on the scenarios is "participate". So why weren't they allowed to do that?

"Repeat scenarios as necessary to build confidence, improve rescuer performance..."
PADI Instructor Manual 2014, Rescue Diver Course, Rescue Scenarios

 

[nldiver1984]

How many dives have you done in the year since you took the class, if you don't mind me asking?

I have done about 60-70 dives.

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---------- Post added September 8th, 2015 at 11:14 PM ----------

Progression of skills development follows in order according to the modules. In theory, any hiccup along the way is a potential show stopper. Evaluation of skills is not limited to the "end result". Some skills are evaluated several times during skills development. Probably the best example of this is the mask skill as taught in the OW course. It is evaluated during every dive. Obviously, you expect the end result to be *better* than the first try but even the first try has to be what you expected.



I don't know if you read the whole thread, Andy, but it's a good idea. I agree that there is (probably) more going on here than just what the OP wrote but it was very clear that he was feeling beaten down by it. From the outset I read this thread as a dynamic between student and teacher that didn't click. That's seldom, in my experience, the fault of either party. Perhaps with another instructor he would have been able to work through the issues he was having.

@nldiver1984, do you have an update for us? I'm curious how you're feeling now that some time had passed.

R..

---------- Post added September 7th, 2015 at 04:18 PM ----------

Jim, I'd love to debate this with you but I'm not sure this is the thread for it. The OP bombed out of a class and wanted to talk about that. He didn't want to debate theoretical discussions of when and how certain rescue skills should be taught. Those things are interesting to instructors but aren't nearly as gripping to students who are in the trenches just trying to learn it. As an aside to that, the "receiving" instructor in any con-ed programme in the PADI system is also required to evaluate the diver's skill. It's not unique that the instructor does an "intake". It's practically the norm. Where I work we do an intake with students regardless of the course they're taking. The only exception is when the instructor is intimately familiar with the student already and wouldn't learn anything new from doing an intake (for example, a regular buddy or a recent ex-student).

R..

I was talking to my instructor and it might be possible to just pay for the open water classes and not the e-learning. There will also be a smaller class size which means I can spend more time with the instructor to practice my skills. He recommends that I do it, and we are meeting to discuss sometime this week. I don't remember the things that I didn't complete successfully but hopefully the meeting will give me a better idea of what step I should take.

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[halocline]

I have done about 60-70 dives.

So, if I have it right, you took and didn't pass PADI rescue a year ago, then you did 60-70 dives, and after that you don't feel confident to repeat the class? To me 60-70 dives in a year is quite a few, and I'm not sure why this wouldn't give you the confidence you need. PADI rescue is just not that difficult a class, I suspect a majority of people taking it have fewer than 70 dives total. (I'm not making a comment about the standards of the class....) So there's something that I'm not following.

But, I suggest you try a different instructor. In the end, diving should be fun and a positive experience, and something happened last time that prevented that. If it was in fact a problematic instructor, then you'll likely be fine with a new one. If the problem was primarily with your skills and attitude, that too will become clear with a different instructor (assuming his competence) when the same problems arise. Either way, it's a small price to pay to really learn what's going on here. Best of luck.

 

[DevonDiver]

I have a policy with my students: "You pay for the training, but you earn the certification".

I'm trying to decipher to what extent the OP got what she paid for....

 

[The Chairman]

But, I suggest you try a different instructor. In the end, diving should be fun and a positive experience, and something happened last time that prevented that. If it was in fact a problematic instructor, then you'll likely be fine with a new one. If the problem was primarily with your skills and attitude, that too will become clear with a different instructor (assuming his competence) when the same problems arise. Either way, it's a small price to pay to really learn what's going on here. Best of luck.

I agree! Training should be fun and challenging at the same time. I can tell when I have connected with my students when they tell me that they learn, but it feels more like a game than a class. This is my second favorite class to teach and it's designed to instill confidence, not to erode it. My second rule of diving is that you can call a dive at any time, for any reason with no questions asked and no repercussions. It's the rule of 'fun', meaning that if you aren't having fun than why dive? This applies as much to training dives as it does to simple fun dives. If one instructor doesn't work for you: FIND ANOTHER ONE! Life is too short to pay for frustration.

 

[nldiver1984]

The new Rescue course starts tomorrow but I didn't get back to the instructor as whether I'd be re-taking the course or not. At the moment I don't have the money to spend an extra $275 on a course in which I feel I should have been given other recommendations on how to complete without incurring extra costs. I have the e-learning part of this course already completed and can still access my transcript even though the course has expired. If Padi drastically changed this course over the last year then that alone would be justification for taking it again, but if it's just a means for PADI to make more money off of people who didn't complete the course then I should be able to use my current transcript no matter when I decide I want this do the dives again. I should just have to do the knowledge review and just pay for the dives.

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[oly5050user]

The new Rescue course starts tomorrow but I didn't get back to the instructor as whether I'd be re-taking the course or not. At the moment I don't have the money to spend an extra $275 on a course in which I feel I should have been given other recommendations on how to complete without incurring extra costs. I have the e-learning part of this course already completed and can still access my transcript even though the course has expired. If Padi drastically changed this course over the last year then that alone would be justification for taking it again, but if it's just a means for PADI to make more money off of people who didn't complete the course then I should be able to use my current transcript no matter when I decide I want this do the dives again. I should just have to do the knowledge review and just pay for the dives.

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You have 1 year from when you completed elearning to finish course. After year expires required to redo it. Instructor can be held liable if they accept expired form. Sorry.

 

[Diver0001]

I feel I should have been given other recommendations on how to complete without incurring extra costs.

You were thoroughly advised about your options when you first started this thread a year ago.

if it's just a means for PADI to make more money off of people who didn't complete the course then I should be able to use my current transcript no matter when I decide I want this do the dives again.

You know, I wouldn't blame PADI for this. You had a rough time when you first started the course. The way I see it, PADI doesn't set this rule to make money out of students who want a second chance. After a year, if you're not using what you learned and you didn't finish the course then the chance that you forgot something important is just too big to ignore.

IIRC you mentioned earlier in the thread that you're shy and that you had this same problem in AOW and in Rescue. I suspect it probably also happens in other areas of your life as well. Don't take this wrong, but before blaming anyone else for what is happening here, I would suggest looking in to the root cause. There are ways to get over being shy and lacking confidence. It takes commitment, time and probably 3rd party help but it can be done and I have the impression that it could make a massive difference in your life. Instead of taking another diving course, this is what I would advise looking into first. Tackle the big things in life first.

R..

 

[nldiver1984]

I've decided that the money factor in all of this is just too much at the moment so I won't be re-taking the course nor will I consider doing so in the future. Paying almost $500 for a course after not completing it the first time doesn't make sense to me. I just wish the dive shop was more accommodating as I've done a lot of business with them in the past. This thread can be closed if I wasted anyone's time.

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