Failed PADI Rescue....now what?

[Slamfire]

Should I just pay to take the course again in a week's time or wait until I'm more confident?

If you doubt that you're prepared to complete this course, then you probably are not ready yet. Last year you were saying you were going to sell off your diving gear. From what I can remember you had serious problems accepting accountability for your poor performance. You were giving out poor excuses like there was water splashing in your face and that the instructor was pointing your shortcomings without seeing his own. I don't think that the issue here will be whether your elearning expires or not. The bigger issue is whether you will have the mental fortitude and discipline to complete this. Doing enough dives to feel comfortable in the water goes a looong way to helping you with this. But you confess that you haven't done that. So why would you expect any difference now?

 

[NAM001]

I hate to say this but it is not fair to put the fault on the support from the instructor. One major factor for a class like rescue, and there are many others, is that you in the real world have no one to rely on but you. Any lack of confidence translates to inablility to provide assistance is time critical situations because of indecision. Look at it this way in Ow class you are taught to rely on your biddy. If you faulter the buddy fills in. Now how should a solo be handled?????? If you cant get your mask replaced or untangled from fish line your buddy helps you in OW , again in solo how much slack do you give the student that just gets too flustered or cant work the problem through. Based on what you have said, you are too dependent on others, NO answer needed for this ,,,, but how well prepared are you as a buddy to assist your buddy if needed, without warning? Do you handle your own gear or does your buddy do that for you? The point is, there is a line where being a passive participant becomes a non advantage to not only you but all with you. Perhaps you instructor recognized this. Once again only you know.

Happened with my AOW too.....now I might have to wait until the spring to do the rescue course again and that seems like such a long time. I didn't even do any of the exercises in open water because the instructor thought I couldn't do it. What a way to show support.

 

[DevonDiver]

First, sorry for coming onto the thread so late, and I apologize in advance if I re-cover any points already made (I haven't read every page).

PADI TRAINING IN A NUTSHELL

1. Success on PADI courses depends upon the diving student meeting a level of "mastery" (correctly, fluidly and repeatable) in specifically designated 'Performance Standards'. These standards are provided for the course as a whole, the academic, confined and open-water sections of training.

2. An instructor, according to their own standards for teaching, may not fail a student for anything other than failing to meet the designated performance standards for that course/module/dive etc.

3. The instructor should fully brief the student on these standards in advance, and what is required to meet them. He should then introduce and demonstrate each specific skill, before allowing the student to practice ("until the student is comfortable").

4. The student should then be given reasonable opportunity to demonstrate the required skill/s.

5. If performance standards are not met, the instructor should highlight the specific deficit that prevented the student demonstrating "mastery" in the given skill. They should re-demonstrate to correct that deficit.

6. The student should then be given reasonable opportunity to conduct the skill again.

7. Following any session of training, the instructor should fully de-brief the student, paying particular regard to their success (or failure) relative to the pre-stated performance standards.

8. If the student does not meet the performance standards for certification, then the instructor may withhold certification. However, the process should ensure the student is entirely clear on the specific performance standards they failed to meet.

..... was this how the course was conducted? What is the OP's understanding of the specific performance standards they failed to meet, and for what reasons?

PADI Rescue Diver Certification Standards

Course Standards - Certification Requirements


Student divers meet course performance requirements and:
• Complete five knowledge development segments and exam.

• Demonstrate skills from the Self-Rescue Review either in confined or open water.

• Demonstrate skills from Rescue Exercises 1-10 in open water (spread over at least 2 days).

• Participate in Rescue Scenarios 1 and 2.

• Prepare an emergency assistance plan for a dive site.

General Considerations
Conduct all Rescue Exercises in open water. You may introduce and practice them first in confined water.

Just to clarify.... where did failure occur? In a confined water 'introduction and practice' or during the actual teaching/assessment of Rescue Exercises 1-10 in open water?

Theoretically, as I understand it, an instructor cannot "fail" a Rescue Diver student in the 'introduction and practice' during confined water - because they have to conduct the actual exercise in open water.

So, if the student wasn't allowed into open water exercise practice, the only possible reason I could see was if they failed to demonstrate prerequisite diving skills during a pre-dive assessment/check-out.... and the instructor should/could offer a 'Scuba Tune-Up/Review' (or whatever PADI call it this year...) before starting the Rescue Diver course....

Personally, I wouldn't be so eager to leap to make any recommendations to the OP until I knew, for sure, that they had been instructed properly in the first instance. There's many reasons why a student might not "show confidence or participation" in training - poor instruction is not the least of them..

 

[halocline]

Not to open an old thread, but I would like to add some addition info given to me by the instructor that will be doing the course this month. I already have my e-learning course completed from last year but ibwas told that it will expire this year and I have to take the course over again + pay the $185 course fee. This doesn't make sense as the transcript from my course has no expiry and I can access it at any time though the e-learning site. I still have to pay for the open water part of the course which is $275 so I'm not sure what to do at this point. I haven't done enough dives this year to feel confident enough to do the course again, but if I don't it seems I will lose the online course and have to do that again plus the cost of the other training. In the end it seems I've wasted money in doing the course in the first place and not passing it, now having to pay for the entire cost of the course over again. Does this seem right to you? Should I just pay to take the course again in a week's time or wait until I'm more confident?









Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

How many dives have you done in the year since you took the class, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

One of the things I also consider for a Rescue class student is this, can they actually complete the class? If I have any doubts even though I feel it should be taken as soon as possible after OW I have a sit down with them and explain in detail what the course will entail. If necessary I schedule workshops to bring them up to snuff. The simple fact is though that anyone who supposedly has passed an OW class to RSTC Standards should be able to complete a Rescue course. If they can't then maybe they should not have an OW card to begin with? IF you go by the RSTC standards for an OW diver that are agreed to be followed by the member agencies.

 

[Diver0001]

Theoretically, as I understand it, an instructor cannot "fail" a Rescue Diver student in the 'introduction and practice' during confined water - because they have to conduct the actual exercise in open water.

Progression of skills development follows in order according to the modules. In theory, any hiccup along the way is a potential show stopper. Evaluation of skills is not limited to the "end result". Some skills are evaluated several times during skills development. Probably the best example of this is the mask skill as taught in the OW course. It is evaluated during every dive. Obviously, you expect the end result to be *better* than the first try but even the first try has to be what you expected.

Personally, I wouldn't be so eager to leap to make any recommendations to the OP until I knew, for sure, that they had been instructed properly in the first instance. There's many reasons why a student might not "show confidence or participation" in training - poor instruction is not the least of them..

I don't know if you read the whole thread, Andy, but it's a good idea. I agree that there is (probably) more going on here than just what the OP wrote but it was very clear that he was feeling beaten down by it. From the outset I read this thread as a dynamic between student and teacher that didn't click. That's seldom, in my experience, the fault of either party. Perhaps with another instructor he would have been able to work through the issues he was having.

@nldiver1984, do you have an update for us? I'm curious how you're feeling now that some time had passed.

R..

---------- Post added September 7th, 2015 at 04:18 PM ----------

Jim, I'd love to debate this with you but I'm not sure this is the thread for it. The OP bombed out of a class and wanted to talk about that. He didn't want to debate theoretical discussions of when and how certain rescue skills should be taught. Those things are interesting to instructors but aren't nearly as gripping to students who are in the trenches just trying to learn it. As an aside to that, the "receiving" instructor in any con-ed programme in the PADI system is also required to evaluate the diver's skill. It's not unique that the instructor does an "intake". It's practically the norm. Where I work we do an intake with students regardless of the course they're taking. The only exception is when the instructor is intimately familiar with the student already and wouldn't learn anything new from doing an intake (for example, a regular buddy or a recent ex-student).

R..

 

[DevonDiver]

Progression of skills development follows in order according to the modules. In theory, any hiccup along the way is a potential show stopper. Evaluation of skills is not limited to the "end result".

i don't think we're disagreeing on this.

However, the PADI Instructor manual clearly states that confined water may be used to introduce and practice skills, but conduct of the skill must be done in open water.

If the OP never got into open water, then he never conducted the skills. If they weren't conducted, then how could he have failed them?

The only thing to 'fail' the student for, in that case, would be unpreparedness to start the Rescue Diver course. That preparedness is meant to be covered by pre-course check-out (also in standards, for every course).

So... the OP wasn't ready to start the course. He didn't fail anything. (that should effect payments also....)

But it doesn't sound like the instructor concerned actually did that.... and certainly failed to explain it properly... or brief/de-brief properly any skills, and their performance standards, which had been introduced (if not conducted).

Semantics really... but the issue I wanted to identify was whether the OP had enjoyed tuition that was properly conducted according to the instructor course standards or not...

 

[Diver0001]

i don't think we're disagreeing on this.

However, the PADI Instructor manual clearly states that confined water may be used to introduce and practice skills, but conduct of the skill must be done in open water.

If the OP never got into open water, then he never conducted the skills. If they weren't conducted, then how could he have failed them?

The only thing to 'fail' the student for, in that case, would be unpreparedness to start the Rescue Diver course. That preparedness is meant to be covered by pre-course check-out (also in standards, for every course).

So... the OP wasn't ready to start the course. He didn't fail anything. (that should effect payments also....)

But it doesn't sound like the instructor concerned actually did that.... and certainly failed to explain it properly... or brief/de-brief properly any skills, and their performance standards, which had been introduced (if not conducted).

Semantics really... but the issue I wanted to identify was whether the OP had enjoyed tuition that was properly conducted according to the instructor course standards or not...

Andy, I think you haven't given enough PADI classes to really understand how it works.

The END result must be the intended result. The intermediate steps must also be evaluated. There is a sequence of steps involved and the end result is a accumulation of intermediate results.

R..

 

[boulderjohn]

Andy, I think you haven't given enough PADI classes to really understand how it works.

The END result must be the intended result. The intermediate steps must also be evaluated. There is a sequence of steps involved and the end result is a accumulation of intermediate results.

R..

Correct. The sequential steps are designed to lead to a successful final experience. The student is not supposed to progress to the next step in a learning sequence without showing mastery at the previous step.

 

[oldschoolto]

I really don't want to see the OP go through this process all over again with the same likely outcome... Throwing good money after bad / lost money is never a smart idea..

I'm going to be honest.... I only have a AOW card and have been diving for 40 years. As long as you can go diving, forgetting about the rescue course is your best bet.. Take the money and dive, dive and dive.... Have fun... Easy diving and a lot of it will build your confidence.... If down the road you want to take the rescue class, do it... Have fun diving ..

Jim..