Question Faber sold in Europe can't be tested in the US?

[Badger7]

I'm not looking for a legal advice, but I welcome anyone's input as to whether it is on point, or anything is lacking:

I can't provide legal advice, not qualified at all, but I have a couple ideas you might want to consider to tighten up the language and eliminate some potential grey area. I'm pretty sure ultimately you're not going to be made whole, but personally, and after that cocky message and the admission of deceit, I'd drag his arse in to court (or get a default judgement) just on principal, even if ultimately ineffective at righting the wrong.

I don't like the facebook marketplace mention, not sure it is helpful, and might bring jurisdiction into question. Ultimately you bought these in a face-to-face transaction in the same county you're filing in, correct? I might try starting something like this instead:
"On Dec12 2024, the defendant sold me four gas cylinders for Scuba use for $X, under the pretense that they could be legally filled with air in the USA and had recently been used for scuba diving in this country. Defendent later admitted that he was aware at the time of sale that they could not be safely and legally used or inspected in the US, as they lack required DOT certification and were actually manufactured expressly for overseas use."

On a similar note, I might tidy up that last part. You're not asking for your money back and to keep the product, I wouldn't leave that open for interpretation. You're not trying to punish the seller, just unring the sale as it was made under false pretenses:
"4) refused to take the product back and return the cash"

Before you do that though, do you want to reach out one more time with a "Dude, we both know you're clearly in the wrong here, do you want an opportunity to do the right thing, I'll let everyone know you came to your senses, and you take these tanks back?"

 

[Umuntu]

Sorry about my countryman here.
He clearly is an *******. and stupid enough to admit to his own fraud, now you even got it in writing which increases your chances as you now have evidence, however the caveat being the "sold as is" topic, so from that perspective I am not sure if you have legal recourse despite the admission

Except that seller made deliberate false representations, on which the buyer relied, and has admitted to them. You can rely on “as is” so long as you don’t lie about what you are selling.

The seller would have been in a better situation if he said he didn’t know much about the tanks or whether they could be filled.

 

[Nitrogenius]

Thank you for this info. No UN circle marking unfortunately on these tanks, just as no mentioning of "psi" or "usa" as on the picture in your post. Attached are the markings from these tanks, which are made for European market exclusively it seems.

Ok so from the pictures you can see that they have a metric valve thread.
These are stamped EN which does have an ISO equivalent. Like I said there is a procedure to have them stamped properly but looking at the condition of the tanks as they present and also the price you paid I am not sure they are worth it.
Also I am flying frequently to Germany still, so I could offer to take them and try to sell there, but then again even to get the tanks to me to Texas, then dismantle them for flying the on an airplane, and then try to sell dismantled seems to be a bit over the top in comparison to your damage.
and you'd have to trust another German along the process...

 

[Scuba-74]

Sorry about my countryman here.
He clearly is an *******. and stupid enough to admit to his own fraud, now you even got it in writing which increases your chances as you now have evidence, however the caveat being the "sold as is" topic, so from that perspective I am not sure if you have legal recourse despite the admission

I understand the implicit "as is" clause.

What I'm going by is two things:

1) He did a couple of specific things to misinform me and lead me to forego the "as is" clause: lied about these tanks being filled in the US, and lied about them being "in hydro" on the listing
2) Admitted to everything while blatantly displaying his smugness and douchebaggery

 

[Umuntu]

As a quick update, about 36 hours into this ordeal:

1) The seller had to flee NE scuba divers FB group
2) Had to make his FB page private
3) Has been proclaimed "the most despised diver in New England"
4) Had his employer contacted
5) Allegedly, his family members have been threatened (which is horrible and unfortunate)

So maybe even if I don't win, he still gets the message across that what he did was wrong

I feel sorry for seller’s family, but not for him. RI is a small place, so I’m not surprised there’s blowback.

And anyway you cut it, seller has behaved badly.

 

[Nitrogenius]

The damages I'm seeking is $350. The filing fee is $40. I gather if I win, he owes me $390.

I just don't want to let it slide. It is just wrong.

As a quick update, about 36 hours into this ordeal:

1) The seller had to flee NE scuba divers FB group
2) Had to make his FB page private
3) Has been proclaimed "the most despised diver in New England"
4) Had his employer contacted
5) Allegedly, his family members have been threatened (which is horrible and unfortunate)

So maybe even if I don't win, he still gets the message across that what he did was wrong

He surely got the message by now. 5 is really terrible though! It is the climate these days, but also does not make it right nor are the folks doing those threads any better than the fraudster in my opinion. 1-3 is fair game, 4-5 is also wrong.. Especially 4 is also something that gets more common falling in line with the whole cancel culture attitude which is not a good path. The mix between personal and professional life is not a good thing. I might not like someone on a personal basis, if the person is acting professional in their professional life and does a good job there I would always still deal with such an individual.

 

[Scuba-74]

I can't provide legal advice, not qualified at all, but I have a couple ideas you might want to consider to tighten up the language and eliminate some potential grey area. I'm pretty sure ultimately you're not going to be made whole, but personally, and after that cocky message and the admission of deceit, I'd drag his arse in to court (or get a default judgement) just on principal, even if ultimately ineffective at righting the wrong.

I don't like the facebook marketplace mention, not sure it is helpful, and might bring jurisdiction into question. Ultimately you bought these in a face-to-face transaction in the same county you're filing in, correct? I might try starting something like this instead:
"On Dec12 2024, the defendant sold me four gas cylinders for Scuba use for $X, under the pretense that they could be legally filled with air in the USA and had recently been used for scuba diving in this country. Defendent later admitted that he was aware at the time of sale that they could not be safely and legally used or inspected in the US, as they lack required DOT certification and were actually manufactured expressly for overseas use."

On a similar note, I might tidy up that last part. You're not asking for your money back and to keep the product, I wouldn't leave that open for interpretation. You're not trying to punish the seller, just unring the sale as it was made under false pretenses:
"4) refused to take the product back and return the cash"

Thank you for the feedback, it reads great to me, I will incorporate it into my statement.

Yes, he lives in the same county. His town is served by a different district court (Springfield, MA) from mine (Westfield, MA), though. I will file the claim in my court.

Before you do that though, do you want to reach out one more time with a "Dude, we both know you're clearly in the wrong here, do you want an opportunity to do the right thing, I'll let everyone know you came to your senses, and you take these tanks back?"

I did just that yesterday. He threatened to file a restraining order or a defamation suit against me, although I haven't done either. See attached.

 

[Nitrogenius]

Except that seller made deliberate false representations, on which the buyer relied, and has admitted to them. You can rely on “as is” so long as you don’t lie about what you are selling.

The seller would have been in a better situation if he said he didn’t know much about the tanks or whether they could be filled.

Well the seller surely is not the sharpest tool in the shed at committing his certainly shameful act. If he was smart about it he wouldn't have made any statements on where and how he got them and would have pointed to selling as is and the necessity of the counterpart to conduct their own dilligence. Then it would still have been ****** given that he knows that the suability is limited but at least he would have been clean from a transactional standpoint, but this guy is so brazen that he even admitted to the fraud in text.
Nevertheless,I am still not sure that from a pure legal side there is mertit despite the admission.
Surely there is a lot of guilt morally

 

[Nitrogenius]

Thank you for the feedback, it reads great to me, I will incorporate it into my statement.

Yes, he lives in the same county. His town is served by a different district court (Springfield, MA) from mine (Westfield, MA), though. I will file the claim in my court.



I did just that yesterday. He threatened to file a restraining order or a defamation suit against me, although I haven't done either. See attached.

he can probably get a restraining order issued as they only hear his side then. He told you now he does not want to be contacted by you again, so you should stop that approach there. Apparently he wants you both heading down the legal path and that is likely your best way forward then. So filing with small claims will also help you to defend yourself in case he takes any further action towards restraining order or defamation suit. The latter would be ridiculous though as it is only defamation if you make fals statements and he even already gave you the evidence in his texts that it is the truth.
Especially if the court fee is only $40 this seems to be a reasonable investment given the circumstances.

My offer to help you out still stands. I think small courts is the better option though.

 

[Scuba-74]

and you'd have to trust another German along the process...

I'm not inclined to make any generalizations about his country of origin. I have great friends in Germany, including divers.

What makes this story worse, he lives in the same town, where I lived for 10 years. His kids go to the same schools as mine went to earlier. After he took my money and we loaded the tanks in the trunk of my car we had a chat about the town, the schools, and so forth. He shook my hand before he parted. German or not, this is just not an honest, ethical person there. And it sucks.

As to the tanks, they do look like they've never been rinsed, yes. The German visual inspection stickers on the neck (not seen in the pictures) have expired in 2022. Still these are less than 5yo steel Faber tanks, could be good tanks with a lot of life left in them. If I'm stuck with them, I will consider ways of moving them to Europe, so stay tuned, and thank you for the offer and your input.