Expelled PADI instructor?

[abnfrog]

I was pleased to note not one Canadian name on that list.

then you didn't look very close

 

[chillyinCanada]

then you didn't look very close

Yes, as was pointed out much earlier and I've already done my mia culpa. Which you'd have noticed if you'd looked closer.

---------- Post added October 5th, 2015 at 10:30 PM ----------

Back to the thread, the expelled PADI instructor with whom I'm acquainted, was expelled prior to the actual court proceedings. Regardless, his actions or non-actions in this case were not criminal. It was that his non-certified dm candidate was in the water with the female student and the dm-candidate violated the student. PADI expelled
the instructor. The instructor now teaches under another agency. As far as I understand it, that agency had no notice of any reason to investigate ergo he freely instructs and I'd imagine that's how other PADI expelled instructors carry on under new agencies as well.

---------- Post added October 5th, 2015 at 10:31 PM ----------

Is that a fact? Was the case tried in a court or does PADI act based on hearsay?

I am shocked, time after time, how human sexuality is such a huge problem outside europe, while distributing guns to school children is ok. These things happen, unfortunately, but the law states the punishment, pay the fines or serve the time, and be done? If someone is molesting children (while not beeing underaged themselves) then there's a good reason to keep a close eye on them, but date rapes? Should such claimed event be punishable by life in unemployment?

Date rape is acceptable to you?

 

[abnfrog]

no problem mea culpa as i posted before i read the whole posts , was the instructor you knew one of the 2 ?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

How many people do you know who have been involved in a QA, been suspended, or been expelled?

Frankly if you don't need PADI, and some people's business models don't, it's just not worth it to deal with their QA 'system.' It's a huge time suck, and is completely arbitrary, with the usual underlying reason for expulsion being PADI wants to separate liability issues.

Several instructors following standards at the time of the incident have been expelled by PADI so that PADI could isolate themselves from the fallout from a failure of the standards to ensure safety. The standards that PADI put in place.

For most working instrcutors, the business aspect is clear. Stores and facilities are almost never punished, and members always are. But anyone who works in the business knows that the safety problems come from what stores and operations are deciding, not what instructors are deciding.

I have this discussion with the PADI all the time, and they just say it is the instructors job to follow standards. Which is basically plugging their ears and saying "I am not listening JEFFREY, NAH NAH NAH".

You will never have safety when instrcutors are allowed to work on visas which tie them to one specific operation. We used to call indentured servitude by its name. Now we call it H-2 visas.

So in other words, anything goes wrong and the individual instructor gets thrown under the bus and hung out to dry 99% of the time with no recourse.
Sure, where do I sign up?
How do they get anybody with this business model?

 

[Diver0001]

For most working instrcutors, the business aspect is clear. Stores and facilities are almost never punished, and members always are. But anyone who works in the business knows that the safety problems come from what stores and operations are deciding, not what instructors are deciding.

Actually, in the cases of accidents I'm familiar with, PADI didn't take action against the shop but the local authorities (police, health and safety departments) did investigate and in several cases closed the shops in question due to violations related to the working conditions of instructors. The shops were later allowed to open again once management took measures to address the violations.

It's also completely false that the instructor can be expelled for something the shop did. The instructor has the final say in whether or not to accept what is being asked of them. In terms of decisions, many, if not most accidents during training could be avoided if the instructor learned one simple word..... "NO". If the instructor decides not to say NO against their better judgement then they are culpable.

R..

 

[OldNSalty]

So in other words, anything goes wrong and the individual instructor gets thrown under the bus and hung out to dry 99% of the time with no recourse.
Sure, where do I sign up?
How do they get anybody with this business model?

I've wondered this myself. I am glad that people do it but for me the risk/reward just doesn't pencil out.

 

[chillyinCanada]

no problem mea culpa as i posted before i read the whole posts , was the instructor you knew one of the 2 ?

No. Another country.

 

[Britt]

Something I would like to point out, not every instructor that has been expelled from an agency was expelled due to something serious. Take into account how far up in the ranks an IT/Instructor can go and eventually, that IT/Instructor will have a target on his/her back because someone isnt happy. Case in point, an IT doesnt complete a class for someone due to monetary reasons and there is no paperwork showing the student completed the course, the student requests the agency send him his certification and the agency requests paperwork from the instructor showing the student completed the course. The paperwork doesnt exists and the agency is informed of that but the agency still insists on getting the paperwork. A QA is filed by the agency for not having the paperwork. Later on, another instructor trains 4-5 students and doesnt register his student online so the IT in charge of the facility gets a QA 4 months after the IT left the agency for not registering students that he didnt train as well as being told he should have sent in the paperwork for the first students instructor course that the student didnt complete. The end result is an IT gets expelled from the agency he is no longer affiliated with.

Not everyone that gets expelled has performed a heinous act. Some get fed up with the BS and politics and the agency gets butthurt because they cant punish someone that isnt with them any longer.

OP, ask the instructor about it. There might be a valid reason he isnt with PADI or a different agency. If he BSes around or gets upset about you asking about info from the person you are paying and trusting with your life, then find another instructor. If he explains what happened and it seems justified to you, then maybe you have someone you can work with. Your call in the end.

 

[boulderjohn]

Something to consider in this thread....

ScubaBoard moderators sometimes have to deal with problem posters. As individuals become more and more of a problem, we have increasing discussions in our private area about what to do. We send warnings, but things get bad enough at times that we will ban someone from individual forums. We will sometimes ban them completely from ScubaBoard for a period of time. We don't like to do it, so it takes some doing to get us to go that far.

Sometimes an individual who has been so punished will decide to talk about it in a thread. These people will explain the reason they were punished, which is something we don't do ouselves.

I have NEVER, EVER seen any of those people tell the truth. Every time they tell about it, the moderating staff comes across as senseless, overreacting idiots.

Remember that when an expelled instructor explains why it happened.

 

[Neilwood]

Something to consider in this thread....

ScubaBoard moderators sometimes have to deal with problem posters. As individuals become more and more of a problem, we have increasing discussions in our private area about what to do. We send warnings, but things get bad enough at times that we will ban someone from individual forums. We will sometimes ban them completely from ScubaBoard for a period of time. We don't like to do it, so it takes some doing to get us to go that far.

Sometimes an individual who has been so punished will decide to talk about it in a thread. These people will explain the reason they were punished, which is something we don't do ouselves.

I have NEVER, EVER seen any of those people tell the truth. Every time they tell about it, the moderating staff comes across as senseless, overreacting idiots.

Remember that when an expelled instructor explains why it happened.

You make a valid point - treat what the expelled instructor tells you with a pinch of salt. I would be looking at it from the point of view of guilty (they certainly are in the eyes of the agency that pulled the trigger on him) until proven innocent.

I am quite sure that agencies (no matter which ones are involved) would rather have the instructor making them money by running courses (to which they are entitled a fee) irrespective of whether that instructor is doing 1 course a year or 1000. With that in mind, I am sure they would rather the person teaches for them than a competitor so will try to keep them on board if possible by remedial measures.